Pickup for '57 Fender Champ Lap need advice

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 28 Feb 2007 10:47 pm

I've purchased a basket case Champ and need a pickup for it. I've read several threads and there seems several opions on what to stick in there. Some members feel any guitar PU will do and others feel a replacement steel PU is the only way to go. This instrument will most likely be used for country and blues styles. Any recomendations? Also, Has anyone tried a Fender Strat Lace sensor in one of these? It seems to me if a regular guitar PU is all that is required, the noise rejection of the lace would be a benefit. They are also voiced differently my model.

It is my intent to put the Camp back to original condition and want to find and original pickup for it. I'm looking for something to use in the interum. That could be a long time! I'm new to Steels and have a lot of learning to do. I do a lot of tech work on standard six string stuff and BF Fenders. I'm capable, just not educated in these cool little instruments!

I might add, I plan to keep this guitar as a player.

Thanks in advance,

Rich

Roman Sonnleitner · Post by **Roman Sonnleitner** » 1 Mar 2007 3:08 am

You might try a Fender Nocaster or Seymour Duncan Broadcaster pickup - those are modelled on 1950s Tele pickups, which were similar to Fender's lap steel pickups of that time.

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 1 Mar 2007 9:29 am

Thanks for the tip Roman. I guess my first thought that the PU was Strat sized was wrong. It sounds like Tele bridge size from what you say. As I said, I'm new to the steel guitar world and have a lot to learn about them. Even more when it comes to learing to play the thing!

Anyone else have any input?

Chris Gilchrist · Post by **Chris Gilchrist** » 1 Mar 2007 10:50 am

I'm relatively new to the lapsteel and steel pickups myself, but recently I built my own lapsteel using one of Seymour Duncan's "Antiquity" '50s lapsteel pickups, which I believe is modeled after the '50s Champ pickups. So you may want to look into these. See this link:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/a ... l#lapsteel

Eric Dunst · Post by **Eric Dunst** » 1 Mar 2007 12:35 pm

I also have a Champ, and have always believed that it has the same pickup as a Fender Mustang. I don't know wether it's a bridge or neck though. Check ebay, they have a bunch for sale.
~eric

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 1 Mar 2007 12:42 pm

Chris, I took a look at the Duncan and it seems that that pickup may be Champion style and not Champ. I'm really not sure. They are talking about a rectangular mounting base that mounts with screws to the body of the guitar. Looks like I need PU that mounts Strat style through the pickguard/control plate with a mounting screw on each end. I don't want to drill holes in the body. I'm kind of a pureist when it comes to that.

The Tele PUs suggested above have three mounting screws but none on the ends so that may rule that out as well. How did you mount your PU? Any chance you could email me pics?

Best,

Rich

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 1 Mar 2007 12:54 pm

Check with Jason Lollar.
http://www.lollarguitars.com/

Dave Zielinski · Post by **Dave Zielinski** » 1 Mar 2007 1:28 pm

I second the Lollar recommendation. You'll pay for nothing but great tone in his pickups.

Heck of a good guy too.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 1 Mar 2007 1:32 pm

Abdo-lutely!

Chris Gilchrist · Post by **Chris Gilchrist** » 1 Mar 2007 1:43 pm

Rich,
I think you are correct. The SD is modeled on the Champion, not Champ, and it mounts by just screwing into the wood w/two holes on one side. Sorry for the confusion. I can send you some pics if you want, but I don't think this is what you're looking for.
-Chris

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 1 Mar 2007 1:58 pm

I third the Lollar recommendation. His work is second to none.

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 1 Mar 2007 3:26 pm

Thanks for the Lollar lead guys, he can wind one up for me. Nice guy too. Talking with him, the PU is Strat styled in mounting but he will need the mounting hole distance to get it right. Might be the same, might not. This is a PU he doesn't get much call for it seems. Needs to be a custom job so it integrates with the tone control properly according to Jason.

Chris, your right, no need for the pics since it is a Champion. But thanks, I appreciate your time and willingness to help me out. Interesting though. In the middle of this I got an email from a member offering to sell a Champion. I'll be taking a look at it. If it is reasonable who knows?

Thanks again to all,

Rich

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 1 Mar 2007 6:02 pm

If you pick up another Champion, with an original pickup, you could have a duplicate of the original built by Jason.
He winds all the coils for the horseshoes I put together. First class operation.

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 1 Mar 2007 6:33 pm

Hi Bill, Yeah it appears there is quite a difference in the PUs in the Champ, which I have, and the Champion. I did some measuring when I got home today and the Champ PU is exactly Strat size. It mounts the same way as a Strat also. In the Champion the PU is Tele/Broadcater (bridge) size and mounts to the body of the guitar. It has a rectangular base not a triangular base like a Tele.

I can't imagine how much confusion has been created over the 50+ years both of these guitars have been around. The names are so similar and one is an abreviation for the other! Yikes! All new to me but we'll get 'er figured out.

Just in case anybody's interested, the mounting hole spacing for a "Champ" PU is 3in. The pickup opening in the control plate is 2 3/4in X 3/4in, exactly the same as a Stratocaster's pickguard. Sure was nice to have a couple of Strats around the house to compare with.

Take care all,

Rich

PS: I've been around for one whole day and you guys have been very friendly and helpful. Kudos, you're a great bunch and I'm pleased to meet all of you.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 2 Mar 2007 3:11 pm

Did the Champion have a tuner pan, like a Stringmaster??
I seem to remember pix on ebay of single necks called Champion or Champ the the drop-in tuner pan.
Unless I'M thinking of the Deluxe. (??)

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 2 Mar 2007 3:52 pm

The Champ has a drop in ashtray tuner pan and a seperate round steel nut. The body is shaped like a deluxe single neck only a six string version.

The Champion has a steel headstock plate that is formed into the nut of the guitar. The body shape of the Champion is more guitar looking more like an old Gibson or National. It looks much smaller than a Champ.

There are a couple of each on ebay now. I usually search "lap steel" and "fender steel" to find them. Item 160090560922 is a Champ and Item 200084800701 is a Champion. Many times the model is unknown to the seller.

Best,

Rich

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 2 Mar 2007 5:01 pm

Thanks Rich I think you are correct, the sellers aren't up on the models (like me!!)

Regards BILL

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 6 Mar 2007 10:05 am

Well, It's a done deal. Jason Lollar is building a repro pickup for the Fender Champ. Cost, $100, lead time is about two weeks. I'll review it once it is received, installed and tested.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 6 Mar 2007 10:07 am

You're gonna love it!

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 6 Mar 2007 10:20 am

At a hundred bucks I hope so. I'm thinking of using a micro connector between the PU and the harness of the guitar, just for temporary. This way I could pop in other PUs without soldering and do some comparisons using other pickups. Then, when I'm all done fooling around, I just hard wire it in. Just a thought at this time.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 6 Mar 2007 6:52 pm

The hundred bucks is probably because it's a one-off job, and not a so-called production item. Jason will give a price break if a few of the same pickups are ordered. It's the set-up time for one that makes the price.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 6 Mar 2007 6:59 pm

I've paid half again that much, and I've never been sorry!

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 6 Mar 2007 9:09 pm

I'm really not complaining about the price. There was a little sarcasm intended, my choice of words could have been better. There is a lot of work that goes into puting one together for sure. Parts too. I think it is a good investment and fair. Kinda like going to the dentist, 15min in the chair and a $150 bill. You're not paying for what he does, you're paying for what he knows.

I'm actually very excited about getting one of his PUs.

best,

Rich

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 7 Mar 2007 5:43 am

Rich - are you having Jason give your custom made p'up a little bit extra 'juice?' I bought a '60 Champ back in 2000 as my first steel guitar. Until that point, I had never even so much as a touched a lapsteel, a steel bar -- anything. I had a lot of fun with that little steel, but after a time, I realized that I really didn't like the tone of that p'up so much, and wanted something with a little more 'hair' on it, a little bit more mid-range bite, and and a bit more warmth. Of course, the p'up in mine may have been just a bit on the weak side, too, and maybe a visit to the pickup doctor is what it needed?

In any case, you're going to have a lot of fun with that thing. Steel is VERY addictive. About $4K worth of lap steel guitar purchases later, I can attest to this...

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 7 Mar 2007 7:52 am

Geez Todd, 4K ? You got off cheap!!!

Just kidding