Lowering Es AND D# to C# on one lever with U12

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

Anyone regret this change? I would like to lower D# to C#, but I hate the half stop idea on my RKL. Putting the change on my LKR with the E lowers looks like my only realistic option for doing this, but I'm wondering if anyone thinks they're missing something by doing it. I've heard that this is being done more commonly lately.

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

I lower D# to C# on my LKR with E-Eb and I do it to avoid having a 1/2 stop on the 2nd stg. So far, I'm happy with it.
JE:-)>

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I had that on my Excel U-12 when I got it from Scotty because although brand new,it was an off-the-shelf guitar and had the factory version of a U-12 copedant. Anyhow I left it on there for a while but finally decided against it because there are several intervallic combinations,contrary motion and just lots of licks you just can't get when you lock those two changes together.I'm much happier with the 2nd string on its own lever. Incidently I tune it open to C# and raise it with a half-stop to D-D#. Half-stops work better on raises.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Fred, I think lots of 12U folks put that 2nd-string lower to C# on the same knee lever as the E-lower. But I took it off of my guitar because it made that lever too stiff. It also made the throw really long... longer than I wanted.

You may have better luck, though. Try it and see. Smile

David Doggett · Posted 27 Feb 2007 8:25 pm

Yes, on my uni I have the 2nd string lower to C# on my E lower lever RKL. I couldn't live without it when I'm on that minor chord or in B6 mode. But, I still have the half step lower to D and the whole step lower to C# on my RKR, because that has become such a standard on E9. I agree with Mike J. that there are many times on E9 when you want that D or C#, but don't want the Es lowering.

Dave O'Brien · From: Florida and New Jersey

as usual Doggett has it nailed. I have both my Carter U-12's with the D/C# 1/2 stop on 2nd string RKR and C# lower on the E-Eb's (RKL). It makes it easy when I play a D-10 as long as the E-Eb's are on the RKL like most Sho-Buds.
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Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I had that on my old ShoBud S-12 and I liked it a bunch. I play a S-12 BMI now which has more pedals so I tune my 2nd string to C# which I like too. With that 2nd string going to C# along with your E's on a Uni it gives you the same as having a C6th with a D (and a G) on top. Very usable.....JH in Va.
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Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

David, that's what I was looking for. I think in E9 mode that change would give me trouble. I think I'll try to get used to a half stop on the 2nd string. I was hoping I could avoid it.

mickd · From: london,england

I put it on my LKR (lowers the E's) and liked it but I ran into mechanical problems with the lever so I took it off. I now have it on a separate change lock which I have to remember to engage when I go into B6 mode.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I think it would make the lever too stiff, plus there are times when I want the B, C#, E, F# and G# for fast pentatonic runs. I put the C# lowers on a separate knee lever, opposite the E lowers:
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I "squeeze the knees" to get the B6/9 pentatonic position.
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David Doggett · Posted 28 Feb 2007 11:46 am

I'm puzzled by the idea that putting a second string lower to C# on the E lower lever would make it stiffer. First, the second string is so small that adding a change for it adds negligible stiffness. Second, it is lowered - how can that add stiffness unless the return spring is too tight? With my bad hips, I have trouble if my outside knee levers get too stiff. But the squeeze muscles for the inside levers are so strong, I never worry about them being too stiff. At any rate on my Zum, MSA Milly, and Emmons p/p unis, adding that change to my E lower lever did not make it too stiff.

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Hi Fred, it depends on the half stop unit. My pal Richard Burton Mr "spring" man Lol Smile

, made a half stop for my 2nd string on my Carter Universal. Nice positive stop, and no overshoot on the 1st lower. A good spring was all it needed. of course the action is just "Slightly" heavier, but i've got used to it. When my rebuilt Sho- Bud universal is ready, I'm off to Richard again for a heavier spring. It always overshot on the 1st lower and that's why I just reverted to a half lower. I use both lowers a great deal in my playing

Micky Byrne United kingdom..... www.mickybyrne.com

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

My other option might be to hold off and install a RKV lever dedicated to that change. Since I lower by Bs on RKL and lower D# to D on RKR it wouldn't cause problems with my other right knee moves. Unless I'm not seeing something?

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Hi again Fred, I think any change with a RKV would feel very uncomfortable, 'cause you have the volume pedal to consider. I know you can take you foot off the volume pedal, but I just think it'll be too uncomfortable. A wrist lever installed by a good machinist would be better option for that lower. We all like to experiment don't we??? Smile

Micky Byrne England www.mickybyrne.com

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