Bye Bye Horseshoes

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 25 Apr 2006 5:13 am

RIC Trademark

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Hawaiian Steel Stuff
The Casteels

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 25 Apr 2006 5:54 am

Can you not circumvent the name etc by supplying privately, ONLY to friends, and they DON"T pay for them but make a (Substantial) donation to your research project ?

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 25 Apr 2006 5:58 am

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 25 Apr 2006 6:39 am

Just thought y'all might be interested in this "outcome" ... since the subject has been discussed here ... for a couple years now.

Baz, to answer your question to the best of my limited knowledge ...

"Design Marks" prohibit any making of said item ... regardless of whether it's to be "gifted" or sold ...

I may be wrong ... but knowing RIC ... that would be a very expensive and dangerous "enterprise" to engage in now ...

As many folks already know, I personally stopped making the magnets for them before this was granted ...

For reasons that had nothing to do with RIC ...

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Hawaiian Steel Stuff
The Casteels

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 25 Apr 2006 7:06 am

There should be a "P" in front of that company.....

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 25 Apr 2006 7:41 am

Are they going to use the horseshoe for anything, or just sit on the patent and make life miserable for others?

Steinar

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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 25 Apr 2006 7:55 am

It's a "Trademark" ... the patent expired decades ago.

Marks can be renewed indefinitely ... as long as the item is used in commerce.

If they do eventually make them available from their parts department ...

I imagine they will be the "Fauxs" that are currently on their bass guitar ... ???

Ron Bednar · Post by **Ron Bednar** » 25 Apr 2006 8:07 am

Well, that's a drag for me considering a prototype using your biggest horseshoe is just about finished...
But what about Fuzzy's Fry Pans, what does he use...or did you make those pickups for him too?
http://www.fuzzypsg.com/ [This message was edited by Ron Bednar on 25 April 2006 at 09:09 AM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 25 Apr 2006 8:22 am

I don't know what happens internationally ...

But I would imagine importing and selling them in the US ... would be a "no-no" now ...

or did you make those pickups for him too?

No .. Excel Frypans utilize non-magnetic "Faux" horseshoe magnets ... with conventional alnico pole piece bobbins ...

From what I've heard ... RIC has never "licensed" the production of their horseshoe pickups to anyone.

It's all about "the look" ... not the function ...

Functionally ... the "Around the Strings" configuration of the magnetic field can be accomplished without:

a configuration of a rectangular metal guitar pickup with left and right side metal coverings over magnetic electronics for electronically transmitting sound to the amplification system.

But folks who want "that look" ... ???

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Hawaiian Steel Stuff
The Casteels

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 25 April 2006 at 10:50 AM.]

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 25 Apr 2006 8:23 am

Really sorry to hear about this, Rick. I fully support intellectual property rights but here, we have a company that merely wants to kill competition not protect an existing profit sector. The horsehoe pickup is a product that has not been in production for years and one they have evinced zero interest in stocking, maintaining, developing, or marketing. Along come Rick and Jason - two individuals who have put tremendous time and effort into researching and manufacturing this long-dormant design. Now Ric puts a huge effort into destroying their legitimate attempt to profit from their labors while (I'm guessing) making no attempt to provide this product to the public - at least not at this quality level. I've seen this happen to a couple of small software vendors who had a superior product that was aquired and killed by larger companies who made inferior products. Not exactly the same scenario here but pretty close. [This message was edited by Andy Volk on 25 April 2006 at 09:25 AM.]

Ron Simpson · Post by **Ron Simpson** » 25 Apr 2006 8:35 am

Rick, isn't your MRI pickup a horseshoe of a different color?

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 25 Apr 2006 8:42 am

The "sound" is still available ...

Thanks to Jason ... I got to experiment with this kinda stuff for several years ... while workin' alongside the best pickup man in the business.

Because of these experiments (which is what I enjoyed the most) ... that "sound" can still be had ...

It's just "the look" that is now unavailable ...

To some thats important ...

To me ... not

I'm just hoping that Mr. Hall does make these units available to RIC bass players ... because they "harvested" many, many units from old Ricky steel guitars ...

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Hawaiian Steel Stuff
The Casteels

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 25 Apr 2006 8:50 am

Can you say "MRI"? I knew you could...

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 25 Apr 2006 9:00 am

Rick, isn't your MRI pickup a horseshoe of a different color?

The magnet assembly is similar ... a few differences in magnetic orientation ...

The old Ricky's "opposing" magnets forcing the lines of force down thru the bobbin ... is no longer needed ... because of modern magnetic materials that were not in existance till the mid 80's ...

The bobbin is completely different though ...

But that MRI style assembly ... will produce "that sound" ... when combined with a steel slug, pole piece bobbin.

I had to shut down "my operation" ... except for a few cast steels that I will be making and taking to Joliet ... so this is certainly not "spam" ...

But I would like to believe that our work together ... layed a pretty good foundation for any builders who want that "magic sound" ...

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Hawaiian Steel Stuff
The Casteels

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 25 Apr 2006 9:44 am

RIC.........about your comments as to whether or not Rickenbacher ever licensed their product to anyone:
There was some discussion a couple of weeks back about a RICK Spanish guitar frame that had been manufactured in Europe or the U.K. using all Rick parts but manufactured under another completely diffent name.
Would that show precidence? or however one might spell that word?

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 25 Apr 2006 10:09 am

You're right Ray, Premiervox was the trade name for Rick guitars made under license by Selmer. They DID wind their own versions of the 'Horseshoe" and only the Bakelite bodies were imported. 1937-40
I have the Spanish Guitar version with the amplifier 'Built-into' the case. I'll take the guitar to bits and photograph all the parts against a neutral background and a standard measure. Also I'll measure the value of all the electronic components, and post my findings.
Hopefully this info MAY help establish a precedent for future negotiations. [This message was edited by basilh on 25 April 2006 at 11:22 AM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 25 Apr 2006 10:14 am

Who knows the arrangements made between Adolph R. et. al. ... concerning those "Premiervox" spanish bakelite guitars ... or the Bronson "made" Ricky bakelite steels for that matter ...

But I'm sure that has no bearing on this Trademark.

This mark was published for opposition in January ... and it was registered today ...

It's a "done deal" now ...

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Hawaiian Steel Stuff
The Casteels

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 25 April 2006 at 11:33 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 25 Apr 2006 10:39 am

I say we find the horse and prove that RB was not the originator.....

Patrick Ickes · Post by **Patrick Ickes** » 25 Apr 2006 12:14 pm

I think all of you have missed a very important part of Rick's message.
He has developed a pick up that has the "sound", without the "look". To me, those horseshoes are awkward and cumbersome. My eyes don't tell me how great a guitar sounds, my ears do. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the new pick up. The only down side is if you wanted to restore an old guitar that was missing the original pick up.
Thanks Rick for supercharging my magnets and all the work you're doing to carry on the old Ric steel sounds.
Patrick,

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 25 Apr 2006 1:13 pm

has the "sound", without the "look".

Tell that to the horse......

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 25 Apr 2006 1:33 pm

Within the last two weeks there was, on eBay, an olde SUPRO or something like it, that definitely had a "look alike" horse-shoe pickup installed on it.

What might that deal have been?

Merely a copy or did Rickenbacher sell them?

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 25 Apr 2006 1:40 pm

Patrick, the right hand "obstacle" is still present and necessary for that "Around the String" sound.

These units are actually a tad smaller than their "ancestors" ... yet can accomodate an 8 string with 7/16" spacing ...

Larger units can also be built ... to accomodate as many strings as you see fit to have on a steel guitar ...

But unlike their "ancestor" ... they provide a uniform field from string 1 up to string 8, 10, .... 14 ... whatever.

This was a problem with the Rickys ... the further you moved from the mouth (gap) ... the lower the effective flux density.

These can also be built to any strength and will never degauss (unless you play them inside a pizza oven or inside real MRI).

In fact ... this particular "black wrinkled" unit is a tad too strong for my tastes.

Again ... no spamming here ...

I don't make these for sale anymore ... too time consuming & thats what I have very little of these days ...

But the ground work has been layed, tested and proven ...

Long live "that sound" ...

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Hawaiian Steel Stuff
The Casteels

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 25 April 2006 at 02:50 PM.]

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 25 Apr 2006 4:17 pm

That looks great, Rick. Shame you won't be making any more.

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 25 Apr 2006 7:25 pm

Rick --

Just curious ... did you file an opposition when the USPTO published the notice in January? Parties who can show they are using the same/similar design mark and would be harmed by the mark being granted can file. It seems logical that you would have had pretty good grounds, since you were already producing 'shoes when Ric filed their application.

(Whoa ... did I just use the word "logical" in a discussion about civil law? Shame on me!)

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 26 Apr 2006 2:55 am

Russ ... when 1/31/06 came around ... a team of attornys was flagged ...

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Hawaiian Steel Stuff
The Casteels
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 26 April 2006 at 04:07 AM.]