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Topic: In Search of Excellence |
Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 20 Apr 2006 11:11 am |
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Some say the biggest problem with young people today is teaching them conceptual music. There is a need to listen to what the music is saying.
For some steel guitar players, this much-maligned technique is overlooked in lieu of "playing fast" or playing a zillion notes with machine-gun speed. This seems to be synonymous with playing musically. It may be fantastic technique, but the passion and soul of the music is replaced by repetitive and busy note playing.
Steel guitar players should seek their own voice in music: a note or two that makes their sound distinguishable from others. There is never a doubt when you are listening to the likes of Jerry Byrd, David Kelii, Sol Hoopii, or Jules Ah See.
When a guitarist learns not only the importance of phrasing and articulation, but then goes on to incorporate those valuable techniques into his or her playing, then they truly become a musical artist.
Aloha,
Don
[This message was edited by Don Kona Woods on 20 April 2006 at 12:12 PM.] |
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Rick Garrett
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 20 Apr 2006 11:56 am
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That is VERY good and also VERY true. Good post Don.
Rick |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2006 12:00 pm
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it is often said in the visual arts world,
'less is more'.
it is very applicable to guitar as well.
right on. |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 20 Apr 2006 3:21 pm
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| Yes. I would also include Mike Auldridge as an excellent example of this. |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 20 Apr 2006 3:28 pm
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Maybe...
But music is far from the universal language. That's a myth. Perhaps a certain tune puts you at ease and makes you think of palm trees on a secluded beach... There isn't anything inherent in the music to make you feel that way. You've been socialized to feel that way.
So many different things hold different meanings for different people. Fast picking might be very meaningful to someone. The music of Jerry Byrd, David Keli'i, and Jules Ah See may speak to someone like Chinese folk music speaks to me... it doesn't. |
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Dan Sawyer
From:
Studio City, California, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2006 4:07 pm
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quote, "Some say the biggest problem with young people today is teaching them conceptual music." That's very interesting Don. I'm curious who are the people that say that?
It's obvious that many people nowdays have no concept of melody. |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 20 Apr 2006 5:07 pm
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Dan,
The some are:
Buddy Greco, Dizzy Gillespie, Ray Brown, Ron Eschete and others.
I believe that John Ely also fits here based on what he said at one of the recent HSGA conventions in Joliet.
Aloha,
Don |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2006 5:59 pm
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Dan Sawyer writes:
| Quote: |
| It's obvious that many people nowdays have no concept of melody. |
I agree 100% with Dan.
Listening to the vast majority of contemporary singer-songwriters pounding away mercilessly on their too-expensive-for-their-abilities guitars and moaning about why we should give a damn about their inner feelings, makes me sick.
They may as well be playing a washboard instead of a guitar.
And their self-absorbed lyrics??? Come on... do I really need to listen to a 45 year old singer songwriter spilling his guts about how the kids made fun of him on the playground when he was six?
Who the hell invented the singer-songwriter anyway? In the past there were singers and there were songwriters. The singers had beautiful and/or expressive voices and they could really deliver a song. The songwriters knew how to poetically and musically pair a melody with the words. Rarely did the two combine into a successful unit.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 20 April 2006 at 07:00 PM.] |
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Kay Das
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 20 Apr 2006 7:13 pm
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This is a fascinating thread Don has started. Let me get on my soapbox for fifteen seconds...
I believe that music gets inspired in fifty year cycles of highs and lows. For me, the highs were the mid 1800s, 1900-1930, the 1960s...so we may be due for a new "high". Music was inspired in humans by the birds and the bees, experiments with simple reeds, percussion created with natural elements. Some creatures in Nature vocalise or make percussion sounds faster than any human hand or voice can imitate, some are slow and melodic...
As Jeff implies, what is perceived as a musical "high" for some could be a "low" for others...but that is cultural and generation diversity for you...and we are all the richer for it.
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kay
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wt golden
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2006 12:27 am
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Dizzy Gillespie said it best when he said
"It has taken me all my life to learn what not to play"
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Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
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Posted 21 Apr 2006 2:40 am
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Don,
You say
"Some say the biggest problem with young people today is teaching them conceptual music. "
What is conceptual music? I have never heard the term. Can you give me an example of it?
Fred L. |
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c c johnson
From:
killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Apr 2006 6:12 am
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| Don, do we really need to be concerned with excellence when mediocrity is so much easier to come by. CC |
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Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2006 6:54 am
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Sometimes more is more.
There are times I don't want to hear beautiful phrasing and well-placed notes. As long as I hear a musician who can balance the two then he or she can keep my interest. Sometimes I like to hear an aggressive steeler rip my face off with incredible technique without any regard for melody - as long as it's not overdone and on every song. I like being reminded that there are new heights to soar to.
I remember a time when extreme technique was briefly celebrated among the guitar community in the 80s. The ones who couldn't play like their more-accomplished peers were usually the ones most vocal about taste and phrasing.
Matt |
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Bill Leff
From:
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2006 7:08 am
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Sol Hoopii could rip and I love his fast playing. Debashish Battacharya can play faster than any guitarist I've heard.
There's nothing about the steel that says you have to play it slow and with economy all the time.
Viva la difference in all things. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 21 Apr 2006 8:25 am
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| Some people can keep the musical quality at a high level when they play lots of notes at high velocity, others can't. Tal Farlow could. Buddy Emmons can. Yngwie Malmsteen can't. Bill's examples are good ones too. It depends on the music and the musician. To proclaim that slow and tasteful is the only way to make good music is, IMHO, wrong. By the way, I heard Dizzy in person about a year before he died and he definitely didn't play less notes - just better ones. |
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Dan Sawyer
From:
Studio City, California, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2006 9:21 pm
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Don, i certainly can't argue with your list.
Gerald, you certainly understand melody on that uke of yours. |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 21 Apr 2006 10:08 pm
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There may a technical ability to play lots of notes at high velocity, but the question to be answered is “will it be music that is played with passion and soul?”
Fred, in the sense that I was using the term conceptual music, it was having young people learn to listen to what the music is saying. Listen to the passion and soul of the music. Listen to the way that it is breathed and phrased which creates it’s own unique sound. For instance for a big band you could listen to Count Basie, Duke Elllington or Thad Jones and notice the unique difference. For guitarist listen to Charlie Christian, Joe Pass, Jimmy Raney or Gerald Ross. 
You have the right to your own opinion even if it differs from mine. 
Aloha,
Don |
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 10:48 am
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Matt says,
| Quote: |
| Sometimes I like to hear an aggressive steeler rip my face off with incredible technique without any regard for melody |
This happens when you have been fighting with your wife, you are not interested in melody, you just need something that helps you express your angry feelings. Forget the
beautiful phrasing and well-placed notes, they go out the window.
Axiom: Music expresses your feelings, or the feelings that you would like to have.
Aloha,
Don[This message was edited by Don Kona Woods on 22 April 2006 at 11:50 AM.] [This message was edited by Don Kona Woods on 22 April 2006 at 11:52 AM.] |
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Jesse Pearson
From:
San Diego , CA
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Posted 22 Apr 2006 12:04 pm
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"What kind of story are you going to tell? That's when personality takes over. Personality is the thing that executes what you know. So it comes down to what kind of person you are, how well rounded you are. If you're going to portray love, then, will you be able to do that by way of your medium, or by way of your instrument? Or joy. Or ecstasy. Or depression. Can you convey that? Do you have the dimension as a performer? You have to be a musical thespian. Can you portray deep sadness? And all these things come into play. And this is what makes a great artist, as opposed to a great musician. A great musician can be a great mechanic. A great artist is one who might not be the greatest mechanic, but their greatness is how multidimensional they are in conveying all the human gradations of emotion." Charles McPherson.
It's easier to be a great musician than a great artist I've found.
Playing with garlic or without it is what I hear most in a player. Someone can come on strong at first, but by the third song it's just a repeat of the beginning because they already shot their wad. The thing that really trips me out is someone who can teach really well, but when seeing them play live, they seem boring. Some guys have little tension and release in their playing, even though they have perfectly executed notes harmonically. Personality/Garlic/tension and release/emotions/that collective unconsciousness that touches peoples inner soul and inspirers some kind of response in a positive way, the empty space between notes that keeps phrasing interesting, that is what I look for from my playing and from others. Inspiration is a magical thing.
[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 22 April 2006 at 05:15 PM.] |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 9:52 am
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"I remember a time when extreme technique was briefly celebrated among the guitar community in the 80s. The ones who couldn't play like their more-accomplished peers were usually the ones most vocal about taste and phrasing."
Yeah I've heard that argument before. When I finished college as a music major with a guitar emphasis, I could play fast- I attended clinics on sweep picking, et. al. and discovered something; noone other than players wants to hear that stuff. It is tiring, boring and basically just showing off. There are almost none of those guys that still play that way anymore, for example Steve Vai has gotten away from the high speed stuff and his recent work has been melodic and very tasteful. He can still play all that stuff and does at times in live situations.
The players that get the "greatest player" tag are the ones that can draw an emotional response, like Clapton regularly does. Emmons did the same thing, the stuff that non-players seem to gravitate to proves that out. On the other hand there are speed pickers taht can be extremely tasteful, for example Russ Hicks can play extremely fast runs and still get his story across. Just because you CAN play fast doesn't mean you SHOULD. More often than not you should try and add to the song instead of stealing fire... |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 23 Apr 2006 7:35 pm
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| I just got a call from a "dreaded singer-songwriter" (well put GB) He wants me to build him an electric washboard. |
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