Power Chords on 12 String

Dave Little · Post by **Dave Little** » 19 Jan 2007 12:00 pm

The recent topic entitled "Low E on E9" raises a question in my mind. On a 12 string, I can see how the D string would get in the way of strumming the low "power chords", but doesn't the G# (and/ or the B string raised to C#) also. I thought power chords were just 1, 5 and 1?
(If this is a dumb question, I apologise).

Dave Little

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 19 Jan 2007 3:18 pm

I think power chords can be 1,3,5 or any inversion therof including inverted diads. Low in the range is what probably matters most. I lower my #12 string B to A, and with the p1 & p2 down get a nice low end power chord.

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 20 Jan 2007 5:08 am

I never strum the steel, so the 9th string is not an issue. Grab 8,10 and 12 for a nice root-fifth-root and rock on!

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 20 Jan 2007 5:46 am

I have a similar thing with my E9th 10, just take the 9th D out of the tuning, put your 10th B in the 9th string slot, add a knee to raise that B to D when you need it, and put a .054/.056 in the 10th string slot & tune it to an E [ I have that 10th E moving to a Low D also] with string 8, 9, & 10, you can do the power chords & guitar like rhythms. I have had that on my E9th guitars for several years.
Of course you have to put your normal 10th pull up to the ninth string raise hole to do the B to C# on the 'A' pedal.

Ernie Pollock

http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

Hussein Boon · Post by **Hussein Boon** » 20 Jan 2007 6:41 am

Hi
I don't have a PSG yet but power chords are any combination of notes that use the perfect intervals. These are:
Unison, 4th, 5th or Octave.

So the power chord of 1 5 1(octave) can be broken down to:
1 5 (power 5th)
5 1 (Octave) which, if seen from low to high is also a 4th, which is also a power chord (as per Smoke On The Water)
1 1 (8) an octave

All of the above are power chords.

Enjoy
Hussein

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 20 Jan 2007 7:44 am

Don't forget the Power cord that runs my SkillSaw!
Sorry, I had to.

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 20 Jan 2007 10:10 am

One way to get a "power" chord on a "universal 12" is go to the 7th of any chord, AB pedals down, lower your E's and then thumb 12th string then "IMMEDIATELY" strum with thumb again from "10th" string up to 5th string. Works well

there are other way too....experiment

Micky Byrne United Kingdom www.mickybyrne.com

Dave Little · Post by **Dave Little** » 20 Jan 2007 12:50 pm

Thanks for the replies.
I'm thinking about all this because I'm changing my direction with the steel. I have an Emmons double 10 and have always just played country on E9 and a little Swing on C6. For rock, blues and jazz, I switch to my Les Paul. I'm looking to move into a 12 string and trying to contemplate the tuning and coped that would best suit the E9 country I know and love, but also intergrate the rock and blues I also love. Right now I'm leaning toward just adding 11th string G# and 12th string E to what I already have. I'll ween my right foot off the volume pedal and use the whole pedal board with both feet.
Thus, my question about "power chords".
I guess there are different definations of "power chord". Fred says its just a major triad (and inversions thereof), Hussein confirns what I had always thought (perfect intervals as in Smoke on The Water, Lagrange).
Question for Micky: What notes would your power chord consist of if played on open strings?
Dave Little

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 20 Jan 2007 1:19 pm

Dave, my tuning is a full universal tuning, without the "D" on the 9th string on the open position without pedals. It's not an extended E9th with the low G# and E. Refer to the Carter site on "tunings" to E9th/B6th. I was refering to the 7th of any chord where you have your AB pedals down, if in the Emmons set up. You then move down 2 frets from the chord to get the 7th, then do as I described earlier on this thread, AB down and E's lowered to D#. Dave in the open position without bar, your notes from bottom to top will be B..A..C#..D#..F#..A..C#. You will then be playing a massive 7 string 7th type chord on a universal E9th/Bth tuning. Really good for rocky stuff if played as I described. Kick in a Leslie simulator on fast speed,as I sometimes do and it sounds better still

Micky Byrne United Kingdom www.mickybyrne.com

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 20 Jan 2007 2:13 pm

Dave Little · Post by **Dave Little** » 20 Jan 2007 4:07 pm

Thanks Micky,
A low B9th chord. Very interesting.
Dave Little

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 20 Jan 2007 5:05 pm

I do most of my low power chords with grips, not strums. When I do strum, I often mute a string in the middle with the tip of my left thumb.

Also, I have a strong power chord with the following combination:

E to F knee lever LKL also lowers 12th string E to C#
Pedal 1 lowers 9th string D to C#, raises 7th string F# to G#
Pedal 2 raises both B's to C#

The combination of those three produces a strumable C# major at the nut. At the third fret it's E B E E G# B B E G# B (strings 12 thru 3). Now that's a power chord!

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 21 Jan 2007 12:19 am

What exactly is a Power Chord ?

I have visions of someone turning up the volume and whacking the strings.......

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 21 Jan 2007 1:35 am

Alan, in a way you are right, you do whack those strings!! In the way I described I also "reverse" swell, known as Gutting. Start of with volume pedal pretty well open as you hit the chord, and quickly back off. Dave Little, thanks for telling me that chord. I know my majors, minors, seventh's,major 7th's,diminished,and even an augmented 13th which the late great Gordon Huntly this side of the pond showed me, but anything "slightly" different, I ain't got a clue Lol

Micky Byrne England www.mickybyrne.com

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 21 Jan 2007 2:03 am

A so-called power chord could be major or minor but to my mind the classic power chored is devoid of a third altogether and that's what makes it sound menacing to teenage boys.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 22 Jan 2007 8:47 am

I have always understood a power chord to be as Hussein and Mike say, 1 5 1, with no 3rd. It is a modal chord that is not major or minor. Also, power chord usually implies that it is played on the low strings. Power chords long ago became popular for blues and rock, strummed on the bottom 3 strings of a guitar. Delta blues players either fingered power chords in regular tuning, or actually tuned the guitar with a power chord on the low strings for open tunings. I use power chords extensively when playing blues and rock on my uni. I don't strum, which would activate a 3rd, but use a three-finger grip. I like a uni rather than an ext. E9 because I can get the low root with an A-pedal minor chord, or an A/F combination major chord. Of course I leave out the 3rd. But, leaving out the 3rd of a low power chord on uni is a little easier than skipping the D string. If you inadvertently hit the 3rd, it will not sound wrong, it will only muddy up the chord a little. If you hit the D string at the wrong time, it sounds blatantly dissonant.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 22 Jan 2007 9:53 am

On guitar, the third muddies up the sound because it's tuned to ET. With the JI tuning of a pedal steel, the third blends better and can work well to add flavor to power chords.

As you move to the lower ranges, the intervals between notes of a chord should be wider, though. That's sort of a standard arranging thing, whether you use power chords or not.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 22 Jan 2007 11:02 am

To add to what has already been said, I play a D-12 in a metal band. The top neck, low to high is:
E B E F# G# A B C# E G# D# F#

The bottom neck is, low to high:
C C C C G G C G C D E G

The "trad" power chords with 1 5 1, and 1 3 5 for the upper registers, are easily available. Another more interesting combination is adding the 9th to the 1 5 1 and 1 3 5, for a little extra "grind", E B E F#, and C D E G.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 22 Jan 2007 4:08 pm

Chas...You've got mail ...Jim

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 23 Jan 2007 11:13 am

" what gauge strings you are using for your tunings "

Jim, well, I got out the vernier calipers, I would have written the sizes down, when I strung it up, but that would have been too professional. And this is what they appear to be:

G .012---F# .012
E .017---D# .016
D .017---G# .011
C .018---E .014
G .024---C# .020
C .043---B .022
G .045---A .026
G .045---G# .022
C .060---F# .028
C .070---E .034
C .090---B .045
C .090---E .060

You may have noticed some inconsistencies, or wrong sizes, which are the result of changing the tuning, but not changing the string.

The "C" neck is an ongoing project. Originally I had the C's and G's more integrated with each other, which meant that there would be a Middle C above a G and then a middle C below that G, and so forth. The obvious problem was the different string sizes next to each other. Then there was the "note availability" problem. One of the tunes we do has a kind of "Zep" chord run in it. The C .060, was originally a G, but the "every other" string grip gave me a row of G's.

The C .090 pair is useful, but I get more out of the the strings in the middle. I'm using a Stamps Drive-O-Matic and a Prescription Electronics COB, individually and into each other, for the overdrive. The COB gives me difference tones for a stronger bottom.

Which brings up another topic, sum and difference tones. Most of the overdrivers I've used give sum and difference tones with the difference tones being more prominent. When you play a power chord, it's where those extra chord tones are coming from.

An easy way of looking at this (unless I'm mistaken and everything I believe in is a lie) is doing simple addition and subtraction using the note positions in the harmonic series and assuming the root is C. 1, 2, 4 and 8 are all root tones (C), 3 and 6 are P5 (G), and 5 and 10 are M3 (E). If you play a 5th, 2 and 3 (C and G), the sum is 2+3=5, (E), the difference is 3-2=1, (C) and octave below.

When you play a triad, C-E-G, 1, 5, 3:
1+3=4
1+5=6
3+5=8
3-1=2
5-1=4
5-2=3
All octaves and 5ths that add to the original triad.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 23 Jan 2007 3:11 pm

Did you get the idea from Ernest, Chas?

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 23 Jan 2007 4:10 pm

I can understand the 1 5 1 for the power chord, and even the 1 3 5 chord, but what I don't follow is the use of so many C's on the lower strings .......

....Jim

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 24 Jan 2007 2:28 pm

"Did you get the idea from Ernest,"

Gotta admit, Doug was there, a long time ago. I was living in the Valley, back then, but I didn't know him. Probably better that I didn't.... "Severed Head In A Bag" lives on.....

"so many C's on the lower strings "

Had to put something down there.... Actually, they serve a function. Sometimes I'm just "rolling" the bar, with and without overdrive, and there isn't a lot of sound, when they aren't being picked or scraped. Having more strings there helps to fill out the sound and since they aren't exactly in tune with each other, they generate a little more stuff.

I also do a lot of "behind the bar" picking/scraping while slanting the bar. I can generate a lot of noise, just by doing that and it's a lot more "musical" than using the Glitch Computer stomp box.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Power Chords on 12 String

Power Chords on 12 String

And if you want that on a 10 String?

muddy third