Low E on E9

Mark Butcher · Post by **Mark Butcher** » 15 Jan 2007 7:04 am

I’m considering a copedant change on the bottom two strings changing the D for a B and the B for a low E. This would give me a nice fat power chord. I would slso get a sus2 on my F# string 7, a minor on its raise to G a Major on G# string 6 and sus4 on its raise to A. Not country I know but useful.

Before I also take the raise off string 10, now E, and try to lower string 9, now B to A on the A pedal to give a low root for the AB, do any of you experienced guys see any pitfalls I have not considered?

Thanks Guys

MArk

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 15 Jan 2007 7:17 am

I don't see any problem as long as your changer can handle it. I chart that kind of stuff out on paper first to see if I'll run into any unexpected obstacles. Will you need split tuners, extra bellcranks, etc.?

Dave Little · Post by **Dave Little** » 15 Jan 2007 7:40 am

Mark,
I thought about the same thing, but realized that since I do a lot of single note stuff on the low B, D and E strings, the D on a lever would just not do it for me. I think an extended E9 (12 string) is the way to go. I won't be satisfied until I get one with about 8 pedals and 5 or 6 knees! That being said, I've read a few posts from guys who use what you are talking about. They seem to like it. I guess it really depends on what type of music you play.
Dave Little
PS: A lot of discussion here:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/014093.html
and
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/013877.html

Robbie Daniels · Post by **Robbie Daniels** » 15 Jan 2007 8:02 am

I get the best of both worlds with my D12 extended E9

Mark Butcher · Post by **Mark Butcher** » 15 Jan 2007 8:22 am

I have been playing on only 7 strings E to D# for a while to simplify finding my way in the strings, particularly if I'm trying to read tab and look at my bar hand. It helped a lot. So I don't miss the D & B and with B&E I can get to the bass notes I want most.

A 12 string sounds too complicated and even harder to find my way round. I don't have one either! I'm hoping that I can take the rod from the tenth string raise and move it to the ninth string lower to get my B to A, anything more than that would frighten me off.

Thanks for the heads up to the other strings Dave.

Mark

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 15 Jan 2007 9:29 am

Mark, I believe Larry Behm has been playing this set-up for a few years now. Perhaps you should direct your questions to him.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 15 Jan 2007 10:13 am

Try this:

http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/ads ... tuning.jpg

I got it off Ernie Pollock's website and it looks like just the ticket.If I had a spare S-10 around I'd probably try it myself and travel light to rock and roll gigs.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 15 Jan 2007 11:12 am

Bingo--I was about to link you up to Ernie Pollack's 10 string 'universal' but Michael got there first. I play nothing but 12 string but I keep meaning to try this on a 10 string I've got sitting here. There are some compromises, for sure. Just a question of which compromises better suit what you are looking for, musically.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 16 Jan 2007 2:08 am

If I only had a S-10, I'd probably set it up like this with the bottom two strings tuned to B and E.......

LKL.....would either lower both B's to A# or both G#'s to G, I prefer the B to A# lowers though........

LKR.....lower the 2nd string D# to D, and the 8th string E to D..

P1......raise the 5th and 9th B strings to C#......

P2.....raise the 3rd and 6th G# strings to A.....

P3......raise the 5th string B to C# and the 6th string G# to A#, this is a standard Uni change and very useful with the E's lowered or not........

RKL.....this would raise the 4th and 8th E strings to F and lower the 10th string E to C#........

RKR.....this would lower the 2nd string D# to C# and lower the 4th and 8th E strings to D#.......

Sort of a "mini" universal tuning.........JH in Va.

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 16 Jan 2007 5:00 am

Mark: I have been using that tuning for a long time, I do lower the 10th E to a D on one of the levers, of course raise the 9th B to D when I need it. Works great. I have put this tuning on 'All Pull' guitars and 'Pull Release' guitars with no problem at all. I like to sing & play & love having those power chords with that low E string. Works for me!!

Ernie Pollock

http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

Chick Donner · Post by **Chick Donner** » 17 Jan 2007 1:21 pm

Couple of guys here in northern Ohio been doing it for years (Freddie Little and Roger Mullinex). They pedal the B up to D, and put G# and E on 9 & 10. Been trying for years to get them to join me on D12 and just be done with it.

Roger's on this forum. Email him, he-s got ideas for you.

Donald Dunlavey · Post by **Donald Dunlavey** » 17 Jan 2007 8:03 pm

12 string, 12 string, 12 string, Big sound, many options.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 18 Jan 2007 1:34 am

That's what I have been doing on my E9th for a while. There are a *bunch* of Sacred Steel things that fall out with this tuning.

An important change: on the same knee lever that you raise your 1st (or 1st and 2nd) string, lower the low F# to E. This gives you a lap steel tuning on the bottom 8 strings of the instrument.

I don't miss the low D at all (I can always get it with a knee lever).

Doug Childress · Post by **Doug Childress** » 18 Jan 2007 10:53 am

I used the 9 (G#) and 10 (E) on a couple of setups. Lately I have gone to a 12 string extended E9 with the standard E9th tuning on strings 1 - 10 and have the G# on 11 and E on 12. The 10 string setup you mentioned was easy to play but I missed hearing some of the E9th string combinations that I liked. The 10 string setup I had also removed the D# second and moved the G# third into the second string position. With this setup the E's were on strings 3 and 7 with the B's on 4 and 8. Took a little getting used to but it worked very well.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 18 Jan 2007 12:00 pm

It depends on what you are going for, but I greatly prefer having the low B down there instead of a low G#. It's better for doing 'rhythm steel' (IMHO).

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 18 Jan 2007 12:58 pm

deleted

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 18 Jan 2007 2:26 pm

adding the low E and moving the low B to the 'D slot' is really, really easy. So easy that I did it myself (and I am as bad a pedal steel mechanic as they come).

And you can play AC/DC rhythm on your pedal steel:
Girl's Got Ryhthm

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 18 Jan 2007 3:14 pm

deleted

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 18 Jan 2007 5:48 pm

Yes thanks to Dan I too have a low E, it took me about 2 minutes to get use to it and would never go back. Thanks Dan

Larry Behm

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 Jan 2007 10:29 pm

the low E is required if you want to play steel in a rock band. Otherwise you can't get any good power chords.

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 19 Jan 2007 6:22 am

Precisely why I am stuck with a 12 string tuning. Gotta love that low E.

Mark Butcher · Post by **Mark Butcher** » 19 Jan 2007 6:53 am

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I managed, just, to fit a 56 gauge in the tenth slot which I seemed to need to get a good twang, and have a 38 at the ninth with a raise from B to C# on the A pedal. It sure changes the whole feel of the instrument, I have to force myself to stop grabbing those power and sustained chords all the time.

Mark

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 19 Jan 2007 7:11 am

Yeah, a .056 would be nice. I use a .052 or a .054 because I get less bar noise from the smaller gauges. That seems to be the only drawback to adding low strings.
Rock on!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 19 Jan 2007 11:42 am

I use the thumb of my left hand to mute the low strings when I'm not playing them. That minimizes the bar noise that Dave is talking about, but maybe I'm not as sensitive to it as he is. I'm sure that there's still some noise - it just doesn't bother me.

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 19 Jan 2007 2:13 pm

Yeah Bobby Lee, I also mute those strings. But, I still get bar noise on the low strings especially when sustaining notes out for a long time with vibrato. I've been living with it for many many years, so I guess it's not that big of a deal to me. It usually only bugs me when recording.
I still prefer the 12 string Ext. E9 over the 10 string.
Later, Dave

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