What's a PRO model

Mac Knowles · Post by **Mac Knowles** » 17 Jan 2007 12:42 pm

I often read on here something like..."This will be a good guitar to start on, after you get better, get a "PRO" model".
What exactly determines a "PRO" model. Do you think it's mostly because your favourite "PRO" player has one...or what.
To me an E9th guitar with 3/4 (maybe 5 knees) that stays in tune without fiddling with every 5 minutes, has reasonable sound and sustain and doesn't weigh half a ton to lug around will keep a picker with a good ear busy for many years.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 17 Jan 2007 12:56 pm

To me Pro model means No cutting corners,The best pickups that the company offers,the best changer,best tuning pegs,adjustable legs,a setup that is changeable.The weight of the guitar has nothing to do with being a with Pro model.Some companies make light guitars,some are heavier.Top of the line,when I see the words "Entry Level"or "Student Model" that usually means something is trimmed.having said all of that I have seen Jimmy Day play on a student model guitar using two pedals,and one knee lever and just destroy me...He was Jimmy Day!

Chris Allen Burke · Post by **Chris Allen Burke** » 17 Jan 2007 1:21 pm

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 17 Jan 2007 1:59 pm

A model that is just adequate for a beginner to learn some basics, to decide whether he wants to seriously pursue the pedal steel guitar, and doing such without costing him a small fortune, is what I would consider a student type model. Any guitar above that would exibit the quality and ruggedness to withstand the punishment of constant gigging/road wear, would constitute a pro type guitar. Cost goes up with more bells and whistles, and how purdy you want it.

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 17 Jan 2007 2:16 pm

I would think that a being able to make changes to the copedant or not would be a delineating factor. Going hand and hand with is would be the flexibility of the changer; i.e., is it possible to raise and lower any string. Seems to me that all the student models I have owned (Sho-Bud, Emmons, Carter) had copedants that were intended to be permanent (guess that throws the old Sho-Bud "Permanent" into a gray area--oh well....)

Dan

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Jan 2007 3:14 pm

Pro model refers to a Pedal Steel that allows for flexible changes , lowers, raises etc.. on any string, or multiple changes on the same string. Also these Instruments have the ability to add extra Pedals or knee levers. It has nothing to do with a PRO player perhaps playing on the same brand or model.

Student Pedal Steels, such as Sho-Bud Mavericks are basically fixed tunings and are for the most part very difficult to make changes on and have a totaly different changer system for raises or lowers.

Many of the common PRO termed Instruments have perhaps 3 or 4 raises available per string ( or more) and the same for the lowers. The changes can be made easily by changing rod postions and/or bellcrank positons on the underside.

The changer along with the amount of flexibility per string is for the most part what defines the term PRO Model, as the Student Steels do NOT have these features.

PRO model guitars are designed so that configurations can be changed or modified to suit the players needs.

And of course, quality components and visual appearance comes with the PRO models as well.

Mac Knowles · Post by **Mac Knowles** » 17 Jan 2007 4:55 pm

The Forum is sure a great place to discuss and learn more about this instrument and the folks that play it. I'm surprised to discover that there are actually pickers out there that like me don't get to see or play many other guitars, Student or Pro, good ones or bad ones. I've only ever seen or played on a couple of MSAs, one Emmons, and an old ShoBud permanent. I have to say that I wasn't blown away by any of them, but, like driving someone else's car, takes awhile to get used to the beast. I'm building my 12th guitar now for a customer. Takes an awful lot of hours, no CNC machine here! But it's a fun thing. I still consider these as basic solid maple bodied, triple raise/lower instruments, but each one gets a bit better I think. PRO models they probably aren't, but the capabilities are all there. As Tony points out, a PRO model has the ability to change copendents easily. But you still have to probably find or cut and thread rods, perhaps get more bellcranks etc. If you want another knee lever, you've got to get a kit...or make the parts yourself. What's so "PRO" about that. Unless I'm mistaken, the best and most expensive guitar out there is still like that.

Cheers,
Mac

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 18 Jan 2007 2:56 am

whats so PRO about that ?

Not sure what that means.

The Sho-Bud permenant was built I believe back in the 60's ,thats 45 years ago, you stated you did see a few old MSA's and an old Emmons, which Models ? They could have been student Sttels.

here's the deal. If you own a current decade or even last decade Pro Pedal Steel ,odds are you can call the manufacturer and get the parts you need for add-ons and it's more probable that a Dealer somewhere has the components you would require.

We have only read or seen in extreme circumstances that someone was doing an add-on upgrade and had to make there own parts. that is NOT the normal. A year ago I purchased a 1986 Emmons Legrande, I wanted to add a knee lever, I drove over to Emmons factory in NC and Ron Jr sold me the parts.

If you own pretty much any of the top brands that are still in production, Carter, MSA, ZUM, Emmons, GFI,Mullen, Rains, Excell etc..( sorry if I missed one or two) you can most likely get parts quickly should you need them.

the point is simple, a PRO termed Steel allows for upgrades because of the changer design, a Student steel most likley will not, and even if they do, at the end of the day all you have is a student Steel with an extra pull.

If you purchase a current era PRO Steel odds are you will not ever add parts to it anywhay , but if you did want to you could with minimum effort. Most E9th steels are sold with 3 and 5 ..thats a few decades worth of Education sittin' in front of you.

also..

Most Pro steels, if maintained in quality condition , can realize a quality return on the purchase price with a re-sale. Not so with the Student steels.

good luck

t

Phill Morris · Post by **Phill Morris** » 18 Jan 2007 10:53 am

Been very interesting to read this post , as I bought a cheapy (really cheap) and I am currently trying to improve the guitar .. I think I am fighting a losing battle after reading this post .
Although my guitar sounds good enough for me to learn on I am very quickly realising that it will not do what I want it to do and looking at the mechanics underneath I have got my work cut out to even add another rod to pedals ( my guitar only raises 3 strings and lowers one ) , it is basically a tweaked lap steel.
I have always been of the mind when asked by beginners of music as to what instrument to buy , that you should buy the best you can afford. I did not follow my own advice on this occasion and although I now have a nice looking guitar it is starting to frustrate me a lot.
Thanks for all the info guys , I am now sure I will be getting a pro model ( played by an amatuer though.. lol)
Phill

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 18 Jan 2007 11:24 am

i have had 3 student model steels and now have a pro model Mullem, what i like most about the pro models is:

the fact that you can make it fit you , a student model is designed to fit everyone . i took me about a week of tweeking once i got the Mullen, to really get it juuust right,... i loved being able to adjust the knee levers the way i always wanted them to be
a pro model can be adjusted so many ways not just the codependant

Mark Kelchen · Post by **Mark Kelchen** » 21 Jan 2007 3:59 am

Why would someone hunt with a slingshot when there are compound bows available?

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 21 Jan 2007 4:56 am

Why would someone hunt with a slingshot when there are compound bows available?

$$$$$

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 24 Jan 2007 2:03 am

To my knowledge variable setup (copedent) must be a minimum to a professional instrument.

The Carter Starter has ev'rything welded in place, hasn't it, or was that the Zum Stage1?