The charity gig problem

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 10 Jan 2007 10:10 pm

We have just started a country band in our area and have already been booked for one steady, 2 month gig, and four one nighters.

For some reason however, we are being plagued with the ""We don't have much money so can you donate a one night gig to help us out?

Do any of you other players or bands leaders get hit upon for freebies or is this just a local problem in our area?

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 10 Jan 2007 10:25 pm

I play benefit gigs sometimes. It depends on the situation - we've had a quite a few local musicians get sick or worse in the last several years, and I don't hesitate to play for a benefit to help them or their families. But I don't generally consider a club's bottom-line a worthy "charity", nor do they generally ask us to play for free. Similarly, they expect to make money by having us play. It works both ways.

Larry Lorows · Post by **Larry Lorows** » 11 Jan 2007 1:11 am

Hi Les, Years ago, you could play at a benefit jamoboree every Sunday if you wanted to. The jamboree would be for someone who's house had burnt, had cancer, with no insurance, that type of thing. But the musicians always got free beer.Back in those days the cops were more lenient. ha ha The house band supplied the pa for the day and usually got some money for that service. It was a lot of fun, because you got to see and hear other musicians and you got your name around also.

It was a circle of jobs though, because when you were the host band, you had to ask other bands to play for free at the benefit. Then of course, when they had a benefit, you had to play for free to return their favor. It has become a thing of the past now days. You may see a jamboree once in a great while, but not much anymore. For one thing, there isn't as many bands as there used to be.

Have fun with the new band. Larry

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 11 Jan 2007 2:09 am

In my area clubs seem to do that alot if its a newer band and there not sure how big of a draw you will be.Just trying to cover thier butts I guess. The group I play with got asked that a bit when we first got going. We have no problem playing free if its a benifit for someone who is sick or the victim of a house fire or whatever.But we dont play free so that a club can sell beer and make money and not have to pay us! If they have a problem and wonder if you will fill the place just invite them to one of your gigs and let them see for themselves what kind of a draw you can be. Not too far from me is one of our larger local Country bars who host a Country
"showcase" about once a month. They get all of the newer bands to play for free,no drinks, no gas money. They get about 7 hours of free entertainment, the place is packed with all of the players friends and families and the club makes a good buck....only problem is... then they tell most that they have no open weekends to book for at least a year and they'll get back to you!! The Place was just sold and now the whole cycle is starting over again. Our group just got asked to do a freebie at that same place for the new owners even though we have been playing there on and off for several years!....we declined.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Jan 2007 3:12 am

All bands go thru this and it is not related to NEW or Experienced band.

a tad long, sorry...

You didn't say who was asking for the charity donation of the gig..

We play a few, sometimes we play at a reduced rate.

If it is a legitimate cause you play it under YOUR terms. We have never done a 4 hour free gig, but we have done a set or a long set. With that came negotiating what time we would play for the event. Also with that comes the Newspaper promotions. You don't want to set up at a free event when nobody's there or even worse, only very young children. Or if it's outdoors in the spot where the SUN is shining at it's peak.

Even if you are playing for FREE you set the terms and conditions as PROFESSIONALS, you cannot let them assume that this is just a little side thing and you are just glad to show up with a Guitar. Giving them a contract is a good thing, even if it shows NO PAY involved. It sets the stage that you are serious and the terms are to be met. It sets you aside form the High School kids band who wants to come and jam at high volume. A Contract also keeps a record of the value of the gig, and that you did it, and if needed at TAX time is a legitimate TAX write-off.

Advise them of the logistics of bringing in a full band, sound system, the DOLLARS involved , the time involved and the opportunity that you have missed to go out an earn $500 or $600 that evening because of the donation. Be sure they understand this is a BUSINESS.

60 minutes to them may be 6 hours to you and your band.

A business that asks for a donation is a NO GO.

Help us get started = reduced rate, not free.

We're in business too, and our business is not to is not to play for free for someone else who is trying to earn a buck.

theres more to playing for free than just playing for free.

This past summer we played one of these PROMO gigs at a neighboring town. Our set was at the end of the day, 5 to 6. We were the clsoing set, supposedly the Highlight Band of the day. We arrived at around 3:30 or so, the place was a mob. The band before us went on..Uhh-uhh...this bands set was supposed to be 4:00 to 4:45, they started a bit early and ended just a tad over, closer to 5:00. The entire event was over at 6, Police rule. Well two things happened here. 1, we didn't have barely enough time to set up and play a set, as the other band took there sweet time moving off stage, and 2 ,the biggest problem. They were not really a band, they were friends who played together now and then who thought they were a band, or at least billed themselves as a band.. the MUSIC,..well, I'll be kind...almost the entire crowd left. But that didn't stop them from jamming past there end time, they really thought they were grooving. They jammed to each other without ever recognizing that almost the entire crowd, maybe 200 or more, left.

We ended up playing from around 5:20 to 6:00 on the dot, to almost nobody.

The event organizer apologized to us and she really was ashamed. We were supposed to be the Event highlight Band and she said she had no idea that the Band before us was not really a Band. And she realized at 5:00 that our time slot was totally screwed and that she lost her crowd.

But this is what happens at these multi band FREE donation events. The organizers think they did a good job at booking all these free bands and in some cases they have no idea what they are in for.

As far as playing to help with down on there luck situations, families, friends etc... count me in. Thats a great reason to go out an play, but that has not been the typical request for us to go and play for a Donation at a Charity event.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 11 Jan 2007 3:44 am

I play benefits for folks down on their luck, hospital bills, out of work and no money, things like that. There's one club here in town it seems only calls when they've got a benefit going on so I quit playing there. As for giving a free night to a club for their bottom line, then ask them if they give away free beer and food for the customers. It's a business like any other one and once you get started playing free, then it'll never stop. I'd talk to the other bands around town and get an agreement going with them. No free gigs!

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 11 Jan 2007 5:19 am

I also play benefits, but only when the money goes to an individual who lost their possessions or has medical bills.
I will not play free when the money goes to a business that is making money at my expense.
Many of the benefits I have played, used me as part of a house band. I have played as long as 8 hours for these events.
My last benefit was for the Shriners Crippled Children Fund.
My daughter was in a Shriners Hospital when she was a baby. I consider this a very worthy cause.

Jeff Colson · Post by **Jeff Colson** » 11 Jan 2007 6:45 am

I play 5 or 6 of them a year. There is a schedule and they are very organized. So I know exactly when they are. All the money raised goes to Hospice so to me it's a worthy cause so playing for free is a no brainer. These are 4 to 5 hour shows that involves several different singers and we are the house band. And as the house band none of us play together any other time so it can be a little bit of a rodeo. Some of the singers are good and some not, but we always raise quite a bit of money for a great cause. So I tend to have to drop my expectations quite a bit.

Jeff

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 11 Jan 2007 9:21 am

I wasn't referring to legitimate benefit gigs with my question. It’s bars that are having a bit of a tough slow down, local social clubs and wedding dances.

Our guys have been discussing ways to work around this and we are considering a legit benefit gig should make every effort to at least pay a reasonable rate to cover certain expenses.

A few in here have mentioned throwing in a free one to help out someone or a family that has been caught up in the system and has no place to turn. Let me say here that each and everyone of us would not hesitate to do a freebie for these people without asking for a dime in return. (in fact, that’s how we got started as a group)

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 11 Jan 2007 9:45 am

Les, tell them "If you wanna dance you gotta pay the fiddler".
If they're having a rough time, they can do without luxury items, just as I do.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 11 Jan 2007 10:05 am

If the bandleader wants to do it, he can tell them "I'll show up with my guitar and sing. If any of the other band members want to do it, fine, but I can't guarantee a full band." A leader can't expect everyone in the band to play for free.

Mark Treepaz · Post by **Mark Treepaz** » 11 Jan 2007 11:16 am

I completely agree with Tony Prior and b0b.

As a band leader, I've been asked several times through the years to play for benefits. However, when we had played for a few of them, my experience has been that many were organized very unprofessionally-organized by folks (albeit with good intentions) that had no clue as to what they were doing. Many times the band/entertainers where treated like crap, and the functions were fiasco's.

Now, when asked to play for a benefit, I inquire about the charity to where the money is going, and find out whether or not there is a middle-man involved (a professional fund raising organization) involved. If there is, I politely refuse. If the money is going directly to the beneficiary of the event, then I make a decent cash donation on behalf of the band and offer to donate some CD's or other items toward their raffles etc. I'll even offer to pass out flyers regarding the event at some of our gigs. But, I still politely refuse to oblige the entire band to play for a freebee.

As far as giving a freebee to a Club or business, its like one hand washing the other. If you have a place that gives you a lot of work through the course of the year and all of a sudden the club has an unusually bad night or event, then I have no problem with giving the owner a break on the price for that event. As a matter of fact, that has happened on a couple of occasions, and I gave the club owner or promoter a break even when they hadn't asked for it. I ended up with a lot more work from them in the long run which made up for a LOT more money then the break I'd given to them. It's just good, reasonable business practice.

As far as playing freebees so that someone else can profit, NO. I won't do that.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 11 Jan 2007 12:26 pm

What Frank said.

It's a problem everywhere.

It'll make you feel and look bad, and give even crappy bands the right to badmouth you. They'll be right for doing it too.

It's really hard on your self image too, if you care about it.

EJL

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 11 Jan 2007 1:09 pm

My experience is that if you say no enough times, they stop calling. I always first ask them where the event is being held. They almost always tell me it's a bar. So I ask them if the wait staff, bartenders, sound techs and management are also volunteering that day. Also, I check to see if the bar is selling drinks at cost for the event. If the answer is no to these questions, I ask them why they think the band should not be making money if everyone else is. These questions eventually stop them from calling. Did you ever notice that the bar always hosts these events on a Sunday, their slowest day? No way they'll be giving up the cover charge on a lucrative weekend night. They figure a benefit on a Sunday is a good way to take in a $1,000 bar - and they're right.

I did get one call recently. It was the Sexual Health Centre wanting to do an awareness concert. That's just plain weird.

A local record label/distributor used his clout recently to organize a benefit concert featuring all the bands he distributes, which is the cream of the crop in the province. It was at a 700-capacity venue, 10 bucks a head. They packed the place. You know what the event was supporting? A volleyball team going to a tournament. All I could picture was what that money could have done for a sick child or a family in need. All it did was fund a drunken teenage road trip and boost the distributor's reputation as a guy with his thumb on the music community. Many of my friends were railroaded into this one. I was disgusted. Luckily I'm not with that distributor and couldn't be bribed into it.

I think everyone holding a benefit should be accountable to the municipality, with a permit being mandatory for all charity events - and a financial report following the event, outlining the door's income as well as the bar take. In my dreams.

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 11 Jan 2007 2:54 pm

"Bar Tab" and "help the struggling club" for free gigs are one of the reasons why musicians still get payed so poorly and our minimum wage has not increased w/ the times. There are too many kids out there willing to play for a bar tab that it drives our worth way down. And as long as these schlubs our out there playin for free...... we will all suffer!

I would love to hear from an old timer from a market where/when musicians unions actually kept everyone getting paid better.

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 11 Jan 2007 3:21 pm

It's always a tough call, and sometimes you get bruised for it, but you need only ask two questions:

1. Is anyone paying to attend and/or participate?
2. Is any service provider being paid?

If the answer is yes to either, remember that "anything given for nothing has value in kind."

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 12 Jan 2007 2:23 am

We don't get asked to play free anymore.. We are a rock band for the most part, and its mostly country bands that used to get asked to play free.. Years ago, "benefits" were a weekly event, and if you were desperate you could play them constantly.

Those days are gone, as there are no real country music venues within 100 miles of my area. At least none that will pay very much...
So the equation is thusly..

No venues=no bands=no benefits..... bob

Robert Leaman · Post by **Robert Leaman** » 12 Jan 2007 12:53 pm

Years ago, I booking agent told me that you are worth what you are paid. If you play free for a club and/or a business, that's what you're worth, NOTHING. I've played for benefits that were just that, a benfit for a worthy person or cause. My last benefit was for a friend who suffered and died later of renal failure. He went the hard route. We gave his wife and him $12,000 when the benefit was over. Everyone remembered how many benefits he played for others.

C. Christofferson · Post by **C. Christofferson** » 12 Jan 2007 1:21 pm

My uncle who worked at the airlines told me that many of the small to midsize corporate jets that fly regularly are being piloted by people for no pay at all. The reason being that these ambitious guys & gals need to log 10,000 hrs flight time before they can be eligible to apply for commercial pilot status, so the corporations 'give them what they want'.

custom steel / recordings

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 12 Jan 2007 1:23 pm

Every once in a while, doing a "free" gig can pay off in the long run. But, for the most part, it's been my experience that doing free or really low-paying gigs will get you more free and low-paying gigs.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 13 Jan 2007 6:32 am

Sometimes one has to look up the difference between a Job and a Hobby. I think being able to make a living seperates the two. You can take all club owners and put them in a paper sack,close your eyes reach in and pull one out. "Voilla", its the same guy everytime. "Say fellas work with me now and I'll take care of you when I start to make it". That was a question I'll bet every band has heard. I'm not saying I never did freebies because I did, however my band always got paid even if it was out of my pocket. I don't know of any other tradesman who invest as much money into their equipment and is asked to haul it all to a job and work for free. I guess the Machinist and all trade Unions are stronger than the Musicians Unions. Benefits are another story.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 13 Jan 2007 7:41 am

I wasn't referring to legitimate benefit gigs with my question. It’s bars that are having a bit of a tough slow down, local social clubs and wedding dances.

That's a confirmed "no". Do they ask the caterer for free food?

In the 3-4 years right before my hand problems I played more free gigs than paid ones - but they were bona-fide benefits, like the Fullerton Museum's Fender exhibit, or a particular fundraiser, a specific civic functionoffering lots of exposure, or a medical benefit for a mucian's bills.

But a club? The ONLY free gig I would do at a club is a one-set audition, but even that I'd try to circumvent with a recorded performance.

If a club wants to book a band for free, it's simply to bring in more bodies and increase profit. If the club is "down on its luck" it's probably a place you don't want to play anyway, unless you have your own regulars that come to every gig no matter where.

And with a club, I would simply never do a free gig (except the mentioned audition, maybe) - I'd AT LEAST get a percentage of the bar, and require an accounting before and after (having 4 guys split $9.86 usually means a little skimming has been going on); uually with a guaranteed minimum.

I love to play live and for decades would never even ask what I was being paid when hired for a gig (If I wasn't the leader). But after too many long drives, long nights, cheapskate bar owners etc. I won't even pull out of the driveway for a club gig for less than $50...and that's "hobby money", not *real* pay.

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 13 Jan 2007 12:50 pm

If everyone in the group is in agreement we'll play a bonafide benefit where no one is making money off of it for free. If it's held in a club where the bar is making money,,,,,then I ask the club for our regular rates and we will donate this ourselves to the person the benefit is for! I guess this arrangement wasn't agreeable to them, they quit asking us!

Larry

Richard Bass · Post by **Richard Bass** » 13 Jan 2007 1:16 pm

Years ago I had a tee shirt made that said "No Fender Without Legal Tender". Thats the way I've done it except for benefits for fellow musicians.
Richard

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