C# minor Tuning

[Michael Kienhofer]

Hi everyone this is my first post,I,m trying to understand the fretboard layout in this tuning,A,C#,E,G#,C#,E. low to high.What are my chords called at various fret positions and how does this now effect my slants? Thanks for all your help.

[David Venzke]

Hello, Michael,

You might find this web site very helpful:

http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/g ... ex_rb.html

Change the tuning on the left to match yours by clicking on the "+" to raise them (the "-" lowers them). Then just choose the type of chord you want to find on the fretboard and it will show where/how to get it.

Enjoy!

-Dave

[Mike Neer]

The tuning for C#min7 is spelled (high to low) E C# G# E B E

This is the tuning invented by Sol Hoopii. Is it the one you're referring to?

[Michael Kienhofer]

Yes it is Mike can you give me a quick primer?

[Jeff Au Hoy]

Hi Michael,

It's easier to think of the tuning as an E6. You can orient yourself by the top E string; that's the root of your straight-bar chord. Two frets back from your straight-bar major is that same chord's dom 7/9. Wherever you play a straight-bar major chord, your relative minor is also there too (e.g. C6 and Am are in the same position). You can also imply a 9th chord by slanting the bar forward over the top three strings. I hope this helps--I don't really play this tuning so I don't know all the insides and outs. Mike Neer is very familiar with this tuning.

[Mike Neer]

This is the tuning I play most in. It's just because it fit best with the music I'm playing and it was easy for me to grasp.

You're very rarely going to be able to get complete chords that work with a straight bar. You'll most likely have to use partial chords or slant the bar to get more partial chords. Generally, you're not playing solo when you use this tuning (although it can be done, definitely).

I can't get into it too much now, but I have my way of visualizing the fretboard and it's based around chords and arpeggios. The most important thing to do is think of the first 4 strings separately from the bass strings. An example:

First three strings, barred at 5th fret. Notes are A F# C#

I see that as F#min, A6, B9, DMaj7, D#min7b5, F7#5b9, GMaj9#11, etc. Of course, these are only partials, so not all the important elements of the chord are there, but we can move the bar to get what we need or resolve or reinforce our chord. From there I build my scales and memorize shapes. I've just given myself opportunities to be able to play over any chord in almost any position.

Sorry you asked?
This is just how I see it. My advice, just get used to the first 4 strings, use the "Look No Hands" chord or scale generator and then just try to play along with some old records, like Dick McIntire. Of course, you're not only limited to Hawaiian music.

I apologize in advance if this is not clear enough--I'm trying to do 5 things at once, including tucking in the kids.

If you're interested in hearing some C#m7 tuning in action, I posted a concert of mine at http://www.mikeneer.com/sound.htm

[Michael Kienhofer]

Thanks alot Jeff and Mike I,ll work on this for a while,and I did download your concert Mike you guys are my Fav band,hope to see you guys in the new year!and catch a live show. Michael.

[Doug Beaumier]

I agree with Jeff. I've always thought of this tuning as E6 (E, G#, B, C#)

[Lorren White]

I am surprised that no one has referred to the old Ohau courses that provided lot of lessons in A major, E major, E7th, C#minor7th and Aminor7th. I still have lots of sheet music diagramed in these tunings under the Ohau method.

[Lorren White]

I am surprised that no one has referred to the old Ohau teaching method that provided lessons in A major, E major, E7th, c#minor7th and A minor 7th or C6th. I still have a lot of the music that was provided in these tunnings.

[Mike Neer]

Lorren, all my bad habits I learned from playing guitar. I studied music independently, but extensively, and only can see things the way my brain lets me. I tried to use a few of the available materials, but tab and stuff like that doesn't stay with me. I had to see it all laid out for myself. Maybe that's why I'm not a pure steel guitarist. I'm sure the lessons would be good for technique and all that stuff, though.

[Michael Kienhofer]

Lorren, would you care to share this material?It would be greatly appreciated.Thanks Michael

[Todd Weger]

I am surprised that no one has referred to the old Ohau teaching method that provided lessons in A major, E major, E7th, c#minor7th and A minor 7th or C6th. I still have a lot of the music that was provided in these tunnings.

Since C6 and Am7 are enharmonic equivalents, does anyone refer to C6 as Am7? I think it's interesting that C6 tends to be the more common reference, but rather than E6, it's more commonly referred to as C#m7.

Interesting...

TJW

[Jeff Au Hoy]

I think C#m7 just sounds more fancy.

[Erv Niehaus]

When I used to play a lot more of non-pedal guitar, I had the C#m7 tuning on one neck of my T-8 Stringmaster. However, I put a B between the C# and the G# strings.

I started out learning steel guitar on the A, high bass, tuning and this setup gave me kind of a combination of the A and E tunings.

[Mike Fried]

I believe that C6 used to be called Am7 in its earliest days...
As for C#m, the "pure" C#m tuning was derived from the high-bass A tuning by flatting the third and sixth string A's to G#. National did this on their Triplex lapsteel of the late '40s-early '50s, as did the Stringtone changer. The C#m tuning we've been discussing here is "corrrectly" called C#m7 and was derived from the Emaj tuning by raising the second string from B to C#. As shown in these two examples, the "name" of the tuning didn't necessarily reflect its tonal root in actual usage. For some reason, they were referred to by their relative minor enharmonic equivalent rather than the "6th" version of their major root. It would be interesting to know why that used to be the case...

[George Keoki Lake]

Mike states: "I believe that C6 used to be called Am7 in its earliest days... "

How true. The adage that someone "invented" a tuning has always amused me. Tunings are based on chords which in turn are based on scales. The tunings have always been there, just a matter of knowing basic theory.

[Lorren White]

Lorren, would you care to share this material?It would be greatly appreciated.Thanks Michael

Michael, I do not know about copyrights, etc. Harry Stanley was to owner of the Oahu courses. I did have information that it was sold several years ago. It would take quite a bit of copying. Maybe someone knows if this would be a problem.

[Michael Kienhofer]

Lorren if you can give me titles to these courses I can watch E-Bay for them.Thanks

[Thomas Mardas]

Hi all. I want to learn some tunes in this tuning and have the music but am not sure what set of string would be closest to this one. Would it be ok to get a set of open E strings and tune them this way or should i use C6 set or some sort of hybrid thingy. I realize string size matters with these tunings. thanks, tom.

[Erv Niehaus]

I would suggest you pull up John Ely's web site.
He has a string chart for the various notes.
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/gauges.html
Erv

[Erv Niehaus]

Thomas,
I would suggest you pull up John Ely's web site.
He has a string gauge chart for the various notes.
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com
Erv

[Doug Beaumier]

I second the suggestion for John Ely's String Gauge Chart: https://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/gauges.php#chart

The chart will tell you what string gauge to use for whatever open note (open string) you want on lap steel guitar.

[D Schubert]

I have used C#m7 tuning (and lower variants) for lap steel. It was one of the three tunings accessible with a Rowe/DeArmond Triplex changer, along with E and A.

I have also used this for certain bottleneck tunes, especially for pushing 40's and 50's country songs into a delta blues rhythm, just by raising the 2nd string of Sevastopol tuning.