Modern pedal steel (E9th) and Hawaiian music

Paul Osbty · Post by **Paul Osbty** » 4 Jan 2007 5:36 pm

My perception is that pedal steel players have little connection to Hawaiian music. The origins make a case for this, but is the E9th tuning, for example, not conducive to playing this type of music?

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 4 Jan 2007 6:31 pm

Hawaiian music fits the E9th tuning very well when you use your B6th (lower you E's) and A6th part (A & B pedals down) of you tuning. I also lower my 7th string from F# to F with my RLK to get my diminished chords...works out great IMHO.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 4 Jan 2007 7:48 pm

Leonard T Zinn plays Hawaiian music exquisitely on a 3 pedal 4 knee lever E9 pedal steel guitar.

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 5 Jan 2007 3:20 am

E-9th also works very well for Hawaiian music the old fashioned way, just use bar slants. The sound you get is more traditional Hawaiian then when you use pedals.

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 5 Jan 2007 7:32 am

The Hawaiian sound grew from the triad with roots and fifths on the bottom strings (6&5 on a 6 stringer) to have 6ths and 7ths in the tuning. The first tunings, as I understand it, were E and A, which became E7 and A6....then along came C6.

The E9 is a souped up E7. The changer on the E9 can be set up to give the A6, and B6(=C6-1) tunings.

If the D string is left out, we get the capability of the E9/B6/A6 universal whereon the E7,E6,A6,A7,A6,B7,B6, and variations that include the minors and 9ths may be set.

Those may all be morphed between, or played in the "fixed neck" mode with finger pulls and slants.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 5 Jan 2007 8:14 am

I think it depend on the player.
This is a 1970 Emmons D-10. E9/C6 9x4

Sleepy Lagoon

Pua Mana/Analani E

Paul Osbty · Post by **Paul Osbty** » 5 Jan 2007 3:29 pm

Excellent. Thanks, guys. I'm going to look into this. A Hawaiian interlude is always a crowd-pleaser, it seems, regardless of the gig.

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 5 Jan 2007 3:35 pm

Removing the D string & moving the B string to the 9th position & addding a low E as string number 10 will make the E9th tuning more user friendly. The D note can be had by lowering the 8th string E to D. I believe a famous player in Portland, Or. is using this setup now.

John Lockney · Post by **John Lockney** » 5 Jan 2007 5:38 pm

Check out John Prine's "Lets talk dirty in Hawiian" with
pedal steel by Lloyd Green.

I figured out the "Aloha Oe" intro but NEVER would have guessed that song was on E9.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 5 Jan 2007 11:02 pm

In 1995 I recorded 'Sand" on my Stringmaster, tuned to A6th. The band I was playing with wanted me to perform it, but I didn't want to carry around an extra instrument for just one tune. I worked it up as a "pedals down" arangement on the E9th, using the F lever for the forward slant on adjacent strings.

It sounded real good. Only a steel player would know that it's not an "authentic" Hawaiian instrument. I also play Cocoanut Grove, My Little Grass Shack, Pagan Love Song and Maui Chimes on the E9th.

The way I look at it, a steel guitar is a steel guitar. All of the copedents contain all of the notes. Any kind of music can be played on any copedent. They all have infinite possibilities.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 6 Jan 2007 10:03 am

basilh wrote:I think it depend on the player.
This is a 1970 Emmons D-10. E9/C6 9x4

Sleepy Lagoon

Pua Mana/Analani E

As Basil says, it depends on the player. You have to take everything else into account, too. On Basil's recording listen to that steady rhythm guitar that Pat is laying down, and other instruments in the background. It would sound like Hawaiian music even without the steel playing. (You didn't mention which neck you were playing on, Basil.)

If you try playing something like Pearly Shells or Sleepy Lagoon on the E9 neck, you find that your bar doesn't need to stray much beyond two or three frets: if you play it on the C6 neck you're moving all over the fingerboard. To my mind, running a triad from the main chord to the dominant or subdominant creates that typical Hawaiian effect with rich chords, whereas in E9 tuning, just depressing the A&B pedals and changing the relative tuning of the strings doesn't have the same effect.

But no matter how you play it, if you've been a professional for 50 years like Basil it's going to sound good.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 6 Jan 2007 10:54 am

Alan, Pat says you've just guaranteed yourself the best "Fish Chips And Mushy Peas" you've ever had. The Chipper in Whitehouse Common has just won the award for the 5th year.

Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 6 Jan 2007 11:53 am

I play a Sierra S12 and a Sierra Lap 8 tuned to E9 or B6. I play my S12 in church on Sunday and a number of the songs I play were learned on the Lap 8. To avoid using the pedals (I like to do slants) I determined by using a smaller bar (dia./length) I can duplicate the same sound on the S12. This saves me lugging around two steels.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 6 Jan 2007 3:14 pm

I tried playing Hawaiian music with my pedal steel and it just didn't sound right to me no matter what I did. I prefer playing lap steels for old time jazz, western swing and Hawaiian. I think they sound better and the limitations of fewer strings and no pedals bring out a different musical voice for me that I enjoy.

Plus going to a gig with and old princeton in one hand and a stringmaster in the other sure beats carting 150 pounds of pedalsteel gear around NYC !

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 6 Jan 2007 3:46 pm

basilh wrote:Alan, Pat says you've just guaranteed yourself the best "Fish Chips And Mushy Peas" you've ever had. The Chipper in Whitehouse Common has just won the award for the 5th year.

Mushy peas ! Yum-yum. I don't think anyone over here has ever heard of them, Basil. Yes, I remember the Chipper in Whitehouse Common. I shall try and get over in February, and maybe I'll get a chance to show you how not to play Hawaiian, and then you'll realize how what you make look easy is actually damned difficult !

admin · Post by **b0b** » 6 Jan 2007 6:21 pm

I wouldn't take a pedal steel to a Hawaiian music gig, but I have no problem playing Hawaiian tunes with a pedal steel. Our job is to entertain, not give music history lessons.

Bernie Gonyea · Post by **Bernie Gonyea** » 7 Jan 2007 3:26 pm

Hi Basilh: Thanks for your excellent rendition of Pua Mana/ Analani E. What a grand job of playing such a lovely Hawaiin melody; Weren't you doing this on the C6th neck, Basilh?No matter which neck you were playing on, it sounded fabulous.Anyone not taking the time to hear Basilh doing this number, please do so..Again, thanks, basilh..keep em' coming..Bernie

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 7 Jan 2007 3:35 pm

b0b, It's OK to take a pedal steel guitar to a Hawaiian gig, just leave the pedal bar off.

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 7 Jan 2007 4:21 pm

Wonder why they invite Bill Stafford to play PSG at some Hawaiian gigs, and Jerry Byrd chose him for the JB award at the ISGC...It is not the PSG, its the picker.

Bernie Gonyea · Post by **Bernie Gonyea** » 8 Jan 2007 8:33 am

Good going, b0b; agree with you one hundred per cent..Bernie..Enjoying your new format..

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 8 Jan 2007 9:48 am

basilh,
I just finished listening to Sleepy Lagoon, out standing!

Larry

Terry Wood · Post by **Terry Wood** » 8 Jan 2007 10:00 am

I agree with b0b on this one. I have heard everthing imaginable played on the steel guitar. Be it non-pedal, pedal, guit-steel, etc., including sweet sweet, Hawaiian sounds to the C6th/B6th sounds coming out of the E-9th neck too. Don't shoot me for saying this, I am only a steel player!

Something else, I saw a guy playing Night Life on the E-9th neck years ago and man it sounded like Emmons C-6th-in-it! I tried to copy the same thing to see if I could do it and never could on straight E-9th. Of course this guy,could front a band, play all the leads on 6 string guitar, he used only a drummer and bass player that sang hominies with him. And here's the clincher, he like the late Julian THarpe could literally be playing all over the neck of a guitar, lean around a mike stand, and carry on a conversation with dancers for several minutes as they strolled or danced by. He and Julian had worked together for awhile and I often wondered if they had some sort of Mr. Spock melting of their vulcan minds. Only two guys I ever knew who could do that and literally could carry it on for several minutes. Amazed my simple mind!

Terry Wood

The Steel Guitar Forum

Modern pedal steel (E9th) and Hawaiian music

Modern pedal steel (E9th) and Hawaiian music

E9th tuning and hawaiian music

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