basic steel recording ?'s

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 19 Sep 2006 7:18 am

As a beginer to pedal steel and to recording i have a couple questions maybe y'all could help me out with.

1. How do you deal with the volume dpedal when recording? any tips on getting a consistent level? perhaps its more a matter of becoming consistent with the volume pedal in general as opposed to anythig thats done specifically for recording? or are there some tricks to help out with the level?

2. This is kind of a philosophical question.
When you put steel on a song do you play thru the whole song with the notion you will put the steel in where it is appropriate in the mix? or do you lay out as you might do in a live situation until you are sure its time for the steel? Hope thats clear...I think we all agree its not good to step all over the vocals...its just with the editing capabilites of todays DAWS its easy to say "well I'll just play thru the whole thing and mix it in where I want it"...problem i have is I cant seem to edit myself..or my best licks seem to fall where there should be no steel...any thoughts on this?

Pros when they acll you in for a job, do they want real specific parts in real specific places or do they jst want you to slather steel over the whole enchilada...I'm guessing both at different times?

3. Finally any word on where a pedal steel should sit in the mix? My gut says pan it a little, but my ear says it sounds better dead center for some odd reason.

Thanks all

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Sep 2006 7:28 am

I'll let the tech guys address the other questions but I'll opine that you should NEVER play through the whole song and leave it up to someone else to figure out later what to cut out. That is the least musical approach to recording that could be done. You should definitely play in select spots, with an idea in mind of why you are playing there and not somewhere else. One important reason is that you will play very differently (and less appropriately) if you are playing over everything than if you are taking a selected, musical approach to fills, turnarounds, etc. Don't leave it up to someone else to nip and tuck; that's part of your job in the studio, before your picks even hit the strings. [This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 19 September 2006 at 08:29 AM.]

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 19 Sep 2006 7:41 am

I think 2) ties in to 1), if you don't know where you're gonna be in the grand scheme of things, you won't use the volume pedal effectively. In my experience, the best takes don't need a lot of fader riding at mix time, the player has already got the steel pretty close in context.

Personally, I hate being told to 'play the whole thing we'll take what we want'. I think you need 'the big picture' to do the best job. That said, I'm sure it works for some folks...

JMO.. I'm certainly not a pro.

Just saw Jim's post while I was typing mine, ditto... [This message was edited by Bill Terry on 19 September 2006 at 08:43 AM.]

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 19 Sep 2006 7:49 am

thanks guys. I am doing the mixing, this is just in my home studio that i set up recently. I think i knew the answer to number two before I asked it. Somehow I just cannot stop myself from putting the steel everywhere and I know it would be far more effective if used more sparingly. Is it common for steelers to play pads thru a whole song..just play the chord changes? I find myself wanting to do this as well ,and yet its something I dont recall hearing on non steel-centric records too often.

I think ideally I want the steel to be having a dialogue with the vocalist, not babbling over it...just cannot seem to control myself..hehe. A huge part of the problem for me is I am such a novice player that I only have a couple licks, so i cannot have much of conversation...I keep saying the same things over and over..time and practice is needed I guess. Thanks for the advice much appreciated.[This message was edited by Ben Jones on 19 September 2006 at 08:50 AM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Sep 2006 7:56 am

I am such a novice player that I only have a couple licks, so i cannot have much of conversation...I keep saying the same things over and over

All the more reason why you should discipline yourself to keep your hands in your lap until it's your turn to play, and then put them back in your lap. You know what to do.

Gene H. Brown · Post by **Gene H. Brown** » 19 Sep 2006 3:45 pm

If I have a little input when I do sessions, I always ask them to Bleed the steel across from the left side to the right, which gives it a whole new dimension and if it's a slow song, a little good reverb will help to fill it out and make it a beautiful sound to be heard.
And I might add that the other replies are right on, the one thing you DO NOT want to do is overplay, it's your job to fill the holes and not overfill and to play with taste and in tune.
Gene

------------------
If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!

Tore Blestrud · Post by **Tore Blestrud** » 19 Sep 2006 11:02 pm

Nice topic. Like you guys, I often experience that the producer/artist tell me to play through the whole song, and leave the editing to them. When the CD is out, I'm all over the track, and that's not what i had in mind during recording (and a overplayed steel is usually BAD).

The problem is often that the producer/artist is not familiar whit the steel, and they like the sound so much they use it all

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Sep 2006 4:02 am

Well, that's the sign of a true amateur. In that case, you might as well do what they ask, take your money and go home. There's no point in lecturing them on how to do it properly (unless they ask your opinion).

Bill Mayville · Post by **Bill Mayville** » 20 Sep 2006 7:19 am

Dear Ben
It would be a lot of fun for both of us to just pick and pick,one on one.Get a cheap flight.Come to Vegas. I'll pick you up.Stay here over night .Plenty of D-10's..No cost except the flight. Foods on me.It has to be after the 4rth of Oct.I'll be in Texas next week buying another house.
I won't be moving untill the end of Oct.After that ,meeting up will have to be in Abilene.It's a win win for you.My wife won't let me by the plane ticket. Sorry.
Bill Mayville

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 20 Sep 2006 7:41 am

Thanks Bill, I would enjoy that. Not sure when I can make it out to Vegas tho, using the vacation time to take my new wife to mexico for a honeymoon

That will pretty much clean out the money and time reserves for a good spell. Texas sounds good tho....hope the move goes smoothly for you. Thanks so much for the generous offer!! and thanks everyne for the great responses to my questions. Jim you are right, I do know what to do, I just need to be reminded from time to time...hehe.[This message was edited by Ben Jones on 20 September 2006 at 08:42 AM.][This message was edited by Ben Jones on 20 September 2006 at 08:43 AM.]

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 21 Sep 2006 4:03 pm

If you are doing your own stuff in your own studio, a good way to do it is record it first with all the players there, going direct as much as possible. That way you have an arrangement and interplay between the players. Then go back and redo it (as necessary) with the keeper tracks.

I hope you get some answers to your question number one.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 22 Sep 2006 1:49 am

A contrarian view.

I would, if I am not sure, of the total mix of instruments,
do a few passes all the way through over the whole track.
And listen closely.

When you see where you are strongest on the steel part,
THEN go back and JUST PLAY THOSE PARTS.

Why?
Because for some parts the steel really shines,
and others it can kludge up things.
But it may not be clear, till you listen,
what those parts are.

The volume pedal should be used, IMHO,
for a rare fade up or fade down,
but mostly for maintaining level of long sustaining notes.

When you find your "crusing level",
use the pedal as little as possible
to keep that level apropriate for the
sections you do plan to have parts on.

Really there are No RULES,
just viable suggestions from past expirience.

The hardest part of recording whole tracks,
is the Ego Interuptus of editing to JUST
the best parts,
without going Dixieland on the whole thing.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 22 September 2006 at 02:51 AM.]

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 23 Sep 2006 7:01 am

Regarding pan - I read an interview with some Nashville producer who said that most Country music is listened to in cars (and pickups)and so he panned steel to the right, so it wouldn't be in the driver's ear so directly; your view may be contrary.