Politically Correct...................

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 22 Jan 2006 5:08 pm

With all due respect to b0b.........

I'd like to see the topic HEADING for what has been "No Peddlers" changed to its correct and honored status of:

"Hawaiian Steel Guitar"

Could we have a vote on it?

Steel guitar is what it is.
It's NOT a NON-something entity.

Pedals were added later and a pedal steel guitar thus evolved.

Pedals were not taken away from.........therefore to say "No Peddlers"
is not politically correct.

I know full well that steel guitar players want history to record this instrument, "OUR INSTRUMENT", prominently and CORRECTLY.

How about it? How many of you want the steel guitar to be recognized and referred to as "a STEEL GUITAR", it's proper and correct name; or, "Hawaiian Steel GUITAR"?

Enough bastardizing of this historical instrument has occurred. It's NOT a "lap top" EITHER!

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 22 Jan 2006 5:12 pm

I've heard it called all sorts of things, with lap steel guitar being the most generic description. There are many people who play non-pedal steel guitar who do not play Hawaiian.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Junior King · Post by **Junior King** » 22 Jan 2006 5:16 pm

"STEEL GUITAR" would be my vote, not "Hawaiian Steel GUITAR". I prefer the country sound not the Hawaiian sound.They could have three , "Pedal Steel Guitar", "Hawaiian Steel guitar", and "Steel Guitar"? Junior

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 22 Jan 2006 5:27 pm

My problem with calling this section "Hawaiian Steel Guitar" is that it might give the impression that it's for those playing Hawaiian steel guitar music, and I think that would be a wrong signal to send as there are many of us who perform other styles of music on this instrument.

While I am very grateful for everything I've learned about Hawaiian music since I joined this forum, I probably wouldn't have joined when I did if I thought it was for Hawaiian-style players only.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 22 Jan 2006 5:29 pm

I think it should be changed to "No Meddlers"
and let everyone play whatever they want on the, er, whatever it is that we play.

Mike Selecky · Post by **Mike Selecky** » 22 Jan 2006 5:34 pm

"No Peddlers" is just a play on words, Ray -
even though the term implies no pedals. Hawaiian style playing really isn't the main focus of this section, since topics covering western swing, bluegrass and blues/rock styles are discussed. I guess if you really want to fragment this section, further subdivisions could be created - but can't we all just get along?

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 22 Jan 2006 5:39 pm

I know in my heart that Brad is correct, but there still could be confusion because of the console players who play standing, as do some of the resonator tribe.

So some of us do it sitting, some standing, but most of us do it sliding !!
what about "No Piddlers ?

[This message was edited by basilh on 22 January 2006 at 06:20 PM.][This message was edited by basilh on 22 January 2006 at 06:20 PM.]

Jon Moen · Post by **Jon Moen** » 22 Jan 2006 5:42 pm

I think the existing Topic Heading along with the description below (Lap steel, Hawaiian console and resophonic guitars)is self explanatory. If you want to be more specific, then perhaps including "Hawaiian Steel Guitar" in the individual Topic would be the way to go.

Jon

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 22 Jan 2006 6:06 pm

Uh...Ray...dude...what about us dobro players? We ain't peddlin' neither. Er...pedalin'?

"Lap-top?" Now THAT is bad.

Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 22 January 2006 at 06:08 PM.][This message was edited by Drew Howard on 22 January 2006 at 06:09 PM.]

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 22 Jan 2006 6:57 pm

I vote no, no, no. (not that any of us have a vote anyway).

I like Howard's idea the best.

Ray, sometimes I wonder if you are serious when you write some of the things you do, not having ever met you to see which cheek you put your tongue.

Post by **b0b** » 22 Jan 2006 7:17 pm

You can call the instrument whatever you want.

This section of the "Steel Guitar Forum" is for people who play steel guitars without pedals. The spelling error is a play on words - "no peddlers" is a common phrase; "no pedalers" is not.

Do you want discussions about Hawaiian pedal steel music here? I don't. That's why I called it "No Peddlers".

You can call the instrument whatever you want. I reserve the right to name the discussion areas on the "Steel Guitar Forum" to fit the logical categorization of topics within the context of the entire forum. The names of the sections of the "Steel Guitar Forum" are not subject to votes.

Notice that it's not called the "Pedal Steel Forum".

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/b0bxicon.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
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System Administrator 
My Blog

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 22 Jan 2006 7:21 pm

Well, I guess that settles it. I'll just hang around for a while though....... [This message was edited by HowardR on 22 January 2006 at 07:29 PM.][This message was edited by Brad Bechtel on 23 January 2006 at 01:20 PM.]

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 22 Jan 2006 7:25 pm

Howard -

what a way to go!

I prefer the generic term "biscuit board".
Mebbe then we'll make some dough . .[This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 22 January 2006 at 07:27 PM.]

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 22 Jan 2006 7:46 pm

I remember a conversation here on the
Forum a while back , about when
it changed from "Hawaiian Steel Guitar" to
just "Steel Guitar" - I think It was Mr. Andy Volks
thread ! But i'm not sure about that . some were
about the time Pan Handle Rag was published -
Maybe even before - The Hawaiian portion
was dropped off the published music ! where
before , it always said ( arraigned for
Hawaiian Steel Guitar ) etc. it was never
called no-Ped - But for lack of a better word
with the development of pedal changers ! the
term Pedal Steel works , I don't know who invented
that , so Maybe just call it "Steel guitar" !
But I will say ! I'm forever grateful to the
Hawaiian inventors or innovator of this
fantastic instrument , I couldn't imagine a day
of not touching one . Thank you Hawaii !

Hick

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 22 Jan 2006 8:27 pm

If it was called the Pedal steel forum, I sure wouldn't be here. Regardless of what the powers that be for this forum use for the catagory, no peddlers sounds like a second class citizen in the steel guitar world.Not to say that the forum is any thing less than a great thing for the steel guitar.[This message was edited by Bill Creller on 22 January 2006 at 09:08 PM.]

Ed Altrichter · Post by **Ed Altrichter** » 22 Jan 2006 9:41 pm

I like "Straight Steel" .

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 22 Jan 2006 9:46 pm

My "vote" would be for NON-PEDAL STEEL ...

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 22 Jan 2006 9:59 pm

I like the play on words idea with "No Peddlers" just fine and the idea of bein offended or thought of as a second class citizen in any musical sense has never even entered my mind. I also agree that the discription below the topic heading already includes Hawaiian players. I love Hawaiian, Country, Blues, Rock, Sacred steel and even the playin of the most well known pedal steel player of all time, Jerry Garcia...ooops, sorry...I hope no pedal steel players are listenin in. Oh yeah, has someone cut Howard down yet?[This message was edited by Andy Sandoval on 22 January 2006 at 10:00 PM.]

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » 22 Jan 2006 10:15 pm

No Peddlers is a fun name, I like it. Plus it's descriptive and inclusive. I don't play Hawaiian I play steel (poorly but I play it). I'd like to learn some Hawaiian but usually it's overdriven Blues played through a Super Reverb. And then sometimes I just noodle at home on the tricone.

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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 22 Jan 2006 10:28 pm

I think some of you sorta missed my point; I didn't realize I was gonna hit such a "BIG raw red nerve" with a few of you
but I guess I should have. Sorry 'bout that.
When I grew up, a rhythm guitar was called a Plectrum guitar or Spanish guitar . I can't help but wonder why? Were only Spaniards allowed to play them? Could you only play "Mariachee" music on them? Or with Esteban or Charro, only Flamingo? When they became LEAD guitars, what then? Then they became "Tele"'s; the B-Benders; then pedal-B-Benders or whatever. How about the current rage in Hawaii where they're called "Slack Key"? I know they're playing all different kinds of MUSIC on the Slack key; and they also use different tunings.
It just seemed to me to be appropriate to have a common reference to the steel guitar......not a multiplicity of names for this single beautiful instrument, like LAP TOP, stand alone, table top, console, Double-8, Triple neck, double header, bottle slide, slide guitar or whatever.
It just seemed almost natural to think of it as a steel guitar (NOT NAMED for the style of music played by the creative artist), while the pedal steel seemed to be appropriately named.
BUT I HOPE YOU'll YOU FORGIVE ME for being so out of line with my tho'ts about our cherrished instrument. Just tho't it was deserving of a common reference among we the players. But alas, we can't even seem to agree on what it is that we have chosen to spend thousdands of dollars on and thousands of hour in practicing. Sorry about that.
What made me think of this was a conversation I overheard the other day while riding mass transit. Three slightly strange appearing younger appearing folks were arguing over how to describe their individual Tamborenes.......Six inch; eight inch; featherless; Red trimmed; percussion, black Mica or whatever.

Loni Specter · Post by **Loni Specter** » 22 Jan 2006 11:07 pm

LET'S JUST CALL IT THE 'GLISTAR'!

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 23 Jan 2006 2:02 am

Ray, I don't think your out of line at all and your so right about all the confusion as to what to call our instrument of choice. I too have heard it called everything from a "slide guitar" to "laptop guitar," I don't think your ever gonna get the uninformed to call it by the right name. Most folks that don't play steel guitar just don't have a clue about it and I don't have to tell you that a lot of folks that hear steel guitar in music don't even know what "that instrument that makes those cool sounds" looks like much less what to call it. To me "lap steel" sounds like the most accurately appropriate name for what most of us play. You started out by sayin

"With all due respect to b0b.........
I'd like to see the topic HEADING for what has been "No Peddlers" changed to its correct and honored status of:" and I think that statement is what a lot of the replys here address.

[This message was edited by Andy Sandoval on 23 January 2006 at 02:59 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 23 Jan 2006 2:48 am

Besides the "you can't fight city hall" side of things,
ie b0b has spoken.

I don't trhink the forum name miss-qualifies the instrument.

It is not specifically an Hawaiian guitar looked at here.
The main convergence is
a variety of tunings
and it's played with,
in most cases, a steel bar.

Other than that it isn't at all "just hawaiian" in it's usage.
A percentage of players play Hawaiian music with it.
Many play forms of blues, and gospel, many play bluegrass,
and NEVER play ANYTHING Hawaiian.

So in spite of it's being a roots, historical nominative,
at this point it is far grown from just Hawaiian guitar.

I LIKE Hawaiian guitar, I tell people I play one.
But I see no need to change this forum name.
Sorry Ray.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 23 Jan 2006 3:12 am

B0b hath spoken! The name stays. A steel by any other name would sound as sweet (apologies to Will). This has been an on-going rant in the lapsteel-why-don't-they-call-it- hawaiian-steel-guitar-I-can't-believe- they-use-that-ugly-disgusting-name- slide-guitar-calling-it-non-pedal- sounds-like-it-lacks-something-
why-not-call-it-straight-steel community ever since I've been involved with the instrument and probably for years before. B0b's category name works just fine for me, thank you.[This message was edited by b0b on 23 January 2006 at 05:40 PM.]

George Manno · Post by **George Manno** » 23 Jan 2006 4:57 am

Leave it as it is.It ain't broke.

G