Tone....Is it also in the eyes?

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 23 Dec 2006 2:52 pm

Finishes, yes but COLOR???

(Mine's black, so I'm home free

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 23 Dec 2006 3:22 pm

I think Reece's discussion center on the effects of color on *sighted* people. Whether blind can play well or badly is irrelevant to the effect some colors may ave on certain individuals. Mike's case is not unusual - An old friend of mine had the same aversion to blue. Interestingly (to me anyway) green didn't bother him - and green is a blend of blue and yellow.

Mike - any problems with green, or is it just the primary color yellow?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 23 Dec 2006 3:58 pm

Just yellow. I'm not in love with orange, but it's not the same as my problem with yellow, and I actually like green. (For decades, until I got my millennium, my main steel guitar was emerald green.)

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Warning: I have a telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

Rick Nicklas · Post by **Rick Nicklas** » 23 Dec 2006 4:10 pm

Inherent tone from the instrument? Manipulating the tone with the hands, heart and soul? .... Reese, I am so mixed up now !! But one thing I'm sure of: The Detection of Tone comes from the ears and nose.... More than once from reliable sources, I've been told "I hear your tone and it stinks" !!!

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 23 Dec 2006 4:45 pm

Maybe it's all in the mind.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 23 Dec 2006 5:04 pm

Well, "Incomprehensible". I guess like people that lose their other senses or limbs. Many of these gifts are incomphrehensible too.

Mostly by the people that are befallen by them. (I don't know a single one of one of these recipients that didn't want their eyes, ears, legs or arms back.)

Maybe like all these "tone" threads.

I gig to forget the frustration and other things that disturb my aura.

Right now it looks like MP's mandella.

Like Lot's wife,

Maybe I shouldn't have looked..

Off to the gig. Maybe I won't look later..

I can only hope.

Consternation.

No. That's the right word.

EJL

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 23 Dec 2006 6:35 pm

Erik W.... Surprising the termonology I used, "special gifts" is somehow offensive to you, especially at this time of year, but I'm happy to rephrase.

"Those who are blind are blessed to the extent they obtain aquired enhanced abilities from a higher power which are incomprehensible to those of us who have our sight".

Steve English · Post by **Steve English** » 23 Dec 2006 6:41 pm

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 23 Dec 2006 7:08 pm

Well I'm not offended in the least, and it's "Eric".

Your explanation is not any more comprehensible to me than the original post. It's not my fault, and certainly not anything I need to feel bad, or inferior about. I've got a fairly good sense of the abstract.

I know what gift we were given at this time of year.

It was Forgivness of Our Sins By God.

Not "Tone".

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 23 December 2006 at 07:09 PM.]

C. Christofferson · Post by **C. Christofferson** » 23 Dec 2006 7:58 pm

Ho Ho Ho ??

edit: srry that was probly uncalled for. ive been practicing with my homemade 'stun bar' that gives me a helluva shock everytime i hit a bad note, and its got me pretty damn ticked off. Plus its that time of year when my/our supressed emotions tend to want to surface in order for a little healing to happen. No problm. Of course we're all sensitive to those who have unusual challenges, and it seems like Reece covered that ground as well it can be covered.[This message was edited by C. Christofferson on 23 December 2006 at 09:45 PM.]

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 23 Dec 2006 10:48 pm

What a pity to look up the Steel Guitar Forum only to see angst and bitterness in reply to a valid and intelligent topic with potential to inform and educate. It is also obvious, the reply is anger more directed to a personal issue with the topics author.
These shoot em' down antics are and should be reason enough for me or anyone to be reluctant to post or reply on any future subject of merit.[This message was edited by Tommy White on 23 December 2006 at 10:53 PM.]

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 23 Dec 2006 11:37 pm

Stay with us TW. Most of us place a great value on what players like yourself and Reese post. Personally, I usually bypass the negative post by the few that do it and move on to the real topics that are being discussed. Thanks.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 23 Dec 2006 11:51 pm

I second that, Billy. Tommy, and all the the other masters of this great and mysterious instrument, please do not let a few argumentative individuals keep you from imparting your valuable and trustworthy opinions of the issues at hand.

It's Christmas, for Christ's sake...............can the trouble makers leave their agendas at home for a few days? It's pretty sad when you can't get out of yourselves long enough to express your opinions in tandem with yuletide celebrations. It's getting to be a bit much. Get a life.

I wish that we were all here to learn something, instead of dropping by to take the piss out of someone. [This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 24 December 2006 at 06:54 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 24 Dec 2006 12:40 am

Tommy, don't let it get you down,
forgive and forget... mostly forget.

An interesting comment is from Jimmie Crawford about mica thickness,
and body damping from his green steel.

Johnathan Candler has no clue what color his steel is,
but the little guy has pretty nice sound.
A good instrument, good ears, and soul,
will over-ride ALL colors.

Color does affect your ability to create.
Studies of office workers have proven this.

I have a little .pdf file called Color VooDoo
it is for designing office and work spaces
to be best for the job at hand, and the ability
to work well for long periods creatively.

I used it to design my last 2 studios for
different creative functions in different spaces.
Long but thoughtfull in the control room,
and more agressive in the drum space for instance.
I got very good feedback about the players
creative longevity in the studio.

Some colors make people agressive.
Maybe some forumites need to move their computer to a different room....

Other colors make one quite tranquil, but un-creative.
So if the absence of color: Black is considered neutral,
and the presence of all colors; White,
is considered blinding or oppresive. (not you Tommy!

)

then a median shade such as those colors on
the more natural scale of the outdoors,
would logically be more conducive to natural creativity.

While those seen as extremes would be causes
of inattention or aggressiveness. ie a creative distraction.

It was decided that a certain shade of pink
was best for jail holding tanks, because it
reduced agressiveness, AND physical strength
in the recently incarcerated.

So, if you stare at the strings,
and a general blur of a certain color is the
prepoderance of your view, it will have a
direct affect on your thought processes.

One other issue is string clarity vs background colors.
Some colors will hide the strings,
others will put them in a more stark relief.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 24 December 2006 at 01:08 AM.]

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 24 Dec 2006 1:52 am

TW & Reece, posts like the one you mentioned should be ignored, like the folks that walk around town talking to themselves (and have no cell phone headpiece on).

I like dark tops at the least on my steel, there is a contrast that allows me to concenrate better. One thing I noticed on my new Derby, that I am getting used to is the edge of the metal of the E neck, at certain angles the 3rd string seems to dissapear into the edge that extends past the fret board.
[This message was edited by Bo Borland on 24 December 2006 at 01:56 AM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 24 Dec 2006 2:19 am

Blindness is considered a Handicap which seems to turn into a gift for some

Ray Charles
Stevie Wonder
Jose Feliciano
Jeff Healey
who else ?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 24 Dec 2006 2:49 am

Well CB Locally here, Danny Primmer, drummer, blind from infancy having sulfuric acid put in his eyes as a mistake for boric acid in the hospital. Ed Riplinger, blind from birth, bass player, deceased. and Gino Keys. All of whom I worked with at different times, and I got pretty close to the first two.

We talked a lot about things as I drove them to and from gigs on a couple year stretches. We discussed their disabilities, which were never represented to me as "gifts", nor were any of their adjustments to losing their sight. I'm not going to try and represent them as being anything but people.

All had faults and good qualities.

The ones I knew were musicians, and probably would have been "anyway".

Reece, a lot of really top guys don't seem to like my disagreement with your statement.

Sorry if I made them unhappy.

Too bad I was playing a gig instead of catching the ass whupping I probably got behind the computer screen before all the edits..

Makes me wonder less why there are some "top" steel players that refuse to participate here at all, and that maybe if a few of the angry ones really did go away, and stuck with just selling their products and guitars here, if they'd be as missed as they seem to think.

Thanks Crowbear. Sometimes things written in "American" are better translated through France.

MXMas.

EJL
[This message was edited by Eric West on 24 December 2006 at 03:14 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 24 Dec 2006 4:02 am

a bit long..my view:

I personally didn't read anything that was offensive, in either direction. The thread started out as a subliminal mind kinda thing which I suppose many of us can relate to and then kinda turned towward the blind players thing, which NONE of us who have sight can relate to.

As we start topics here, is the intent that everyone will see ( no pun ) it exactly the same as the thread initiator ? Or is the intent to reach into our cranial regions and spark responses. ? Whether they add humor or a different opposing view ?

I doubt anyone here is intentionally attempting to insult or strike an offense, regardless of the direction of the conversation.

My feeling is we should read threads and responses and take them for what they are, statements and responses.Like all other forums, this is an open conversation and the participation many times is mostly a thing of the moment.IF we start analyzing all of the threads and responses and begin to calculate why one person said one thing and why another said something else...and then join the "OFFENDED" party....it's a lost done deal.

it's no different than if we were talking in a Bar having a Beer or sittin' down over Coffee and hanging out. The only difference is that the words are here for EVERYONE to read and for everyone to either agree with or criticise.

At the end of the day, it's all small talk and should be treated as such.

There have been plenty of threads that I have started where basically nobody agreed with me...and looked at things totally different. I didn't pack up my keyboard and go home....

We are amoung some of the most blessed Musicians on the planet, we are small in number which allows for us to recognize our forum friends daily, we have a thriving way to communicate , we do have a very unique common Instrument, except for you Keyless guys

( see how it works ) and now and then some of the Manufacturers , Road and Session players find there way into the fold which adds some flavor.

Try hanging out and getting personal in one of the other Guitar forums if you are thinking this one gets out of control and goes negative.

Be grateful for what we have, it is special, and so are each and every member here, even the ones who don't agree with me.

I got a call from my friend Stephen Gambrell the other day, he called to wish me and my family a Merry Christmas, he reminded me that we MET here on this forum. Stephen and I don't agree on everyting we read or talk about, and thats just the way it's suppose to be. But one thing is for sure, he is my friend and we are both smart enough to know that we don't need to agree on everything, heck , maybe nothing....

Wishing you all a great Christmas Holiday time..

t
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 24 December 2006 at 04:06 AM.]

Ron Kirby · Post by **Ron Kirby** » 24 Dec 2006 6:11 am

I love black, But Emerald Green sounds a little sweeter! Great point Reece !!!

Merry Christmas To All !![This message was edited by Ron Kirby on 24 December 2006 at 06:22 AM.]

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 24 Dec 2006 6:48 am

I accept responsibility for the immediate and unfortunate negative turn within this thread. I mistakenly assumed it was clearly directed toward those who had vision. Had I simply added a disclaimer to my statement by saying....“the statements I’m making herein does not apply to those who have no sight”, all this could have been avoided.

In the future I will be more conscious of such things, and I apologize for my oversight.

I hope this thread moves forward in the positive spirit intended because I'm fully convinced the implications are numerous and significant, and they can be helpful to many, which was my only motivation from the beginning.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 24 Dec 2006 6:51 am

Well said, Tony, as usual. I just find the snarky, sarcastic replies a waste of time. To come on here and get sucked into a vortex of underhanded mind games is a bit of a drag. The solution of avoiding the thread takes with it the possibility of learning from those who really have something to say.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 24 Dec 2006 7:47 am

Reece, on any given day we can all converse with someone and they will hear/read something totally different than what we are saying. On an open Forum such as this one we now can amplify that by how many and whoever decides to read and participate.

Common sense should prevail for all who participate on open forums all the time.

It's kinda like some Forums where folks write a 12 page response to something..to prove a point. The only point I ever took away from those threads was the person who wrote 12 pages was nuts !

It's the Internet, it's a keyboard and a Monitor.

Maybe we should be limited to 25 words or less per post..I know I should be

Merry Christmas

T

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 24 Dec 2006 8:01 am

I sort of like "the womb" environment...a warm dark color, the piercing highs removed from any outside music/sound/noise, et al.

I like black PSGs, blond arch-tops, natural wood electric 2 X 4s, and "I like beer" a bit.

RE the finish affecting the physical tone...yes, but usually not as much as the materials and construction practices. The disciplines involved are properties of materials, vibration analysis (via computer modeling these days for openers), Sonic/Acoustic impedance and the likes. The color does not damp, but the method of attaching it does. The question about this is...do you want the body to resonate or not?

The color does have physical effect upon the PSG...try a black vs. white brand X on a flatbed in a supermarket parking lot and see which requires the most tuning attention...different color/material combinations respond to heat/sunlight differently. Stage light heat changes are another problem.

If I exercise my right arm it will become stronger than my left. The strength was there all along, but not till I had to use it. Same with lack of sight, hearing, better stop there. The other way to look at it is use it or lose it = the more you use it the better your use of it will become.

DD...You may make some steel players over into interior designers...you seem to read on a lot of different subjects...reading is not "good" for you, it will challenge your tautologically acquired belief systems.

On the BEAST, I use a 6.5" wide fret board, glass with etched frets. The reason is so that I can see every string against whatever color I choose to put behind it. The fret markers are outside the string viewing area...and then I do not watch the strings. Usually the background piece is black mica like the instrument.

Can we divide (generalizing here, nothing personal) the color choice into several categories?...those that like the subdued colors and let their picking advertise their talent, and those that like the flashy finishes that fit with today's jump/sweat/scream/laser show actions?...and those that like a nice furniture finish = beautifully done piece of wood.

Merry and Happy EVERYBODY.

C. Christofferson · Post by **C. Christofferson** » 24 Dec 2006 8:13 am

There's a really good book from 1974 thats been on my favorite list evr since i read it called Subliminal Seduction by Wilson Bryan Key. A vivid expose` not only of the subliminal suggestions we're bombarded with by advertisers but a pretty deep analysis of our 'susceptable' psyches in general. There's copies on amazon.com for a couple of bucks. It's xes really xes good stuff.

Jeff Agnew · Post by **Jeff Agnew** » 24 Dec 2006 8:21 am

Although not directly related to the question Reece posed, there is empirical evidence that some people respond to music by seeing color. That is, they actually hear music and their brain translates varying sounds with corresponding colors. This is one form of a condition called synesthesia (one of many spelling variants). Google the term for some very interesting information.

From Wikipedia:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In music → color synesthesia, individuals experience colors in response to tones or other aspects of musical stimuli (e.g., timbre or key). Like grapheme → color synesthesia, there is rarely agreement amongst synesthetes that a given tone will be a certain color, but individuals are internally consistent. Tested months later, a synesthete will report the same experiences as they had previously reported.

Color changes in response to pitch may involve more than just the hue of the color. Lightness (the amount of black in a color; red with black may appear brown), saturation (the intensity of the color; candy red is highly saturated, while pink is unsaturated), and hue may all be affected to varying degrees (Campen & Froger 2003). Additionally, music → color synesthetes, unlike grapheme → color synesthetes, often report that the colors move, or stream into and out of their field of view.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Must be something like carrying around your own 60s psychedelic concert in your head

To those of us who aren't synesthetes, Reece's question almost poses the reverse situation. Can color make us hear tone differently? If some people see colors when they hear tones, can others hear tones when they see colors?