Too NEW of a NEWBIE to start gigging?

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 23 Nov 2006 5:58 pm

So when should a newbie start gigging? When are you considered ready enough to play out, if you have that as a musical goal?
What sayeth YE???

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Nov 2006 6:03 pm

I'd say "as soon as someone will let you"! You'll learn faster playing out, and you'll be experiencing some interesting interactions, the kind that you can't sitting at home playing tracks.

I was playing in a band after about 6 months, some players take 1-2 years. The important thing is to try it as soon as possible.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 23 Nov 2006 6:11 pm

I was gigging before I knew anything past the AB pedals and lowering the E's. I knew about 5 or 6 licks and where the chords were in the open and AB pedals down positions. That was it. It didn't matter. In this neck of the woods, all people want are some signature pedal steel sounds. Of course I advanced over time, and it was great to do so with a consistent live gig going. I was lucky to have that kind of pressure to keep me inspired and on my toes for the past 6 years.

So, I think it depends on where you live. If I lived in Nashville, I'd probably still be afraid to go out in the clubs and play steel, because there are sooo many top notch players. But in places where the steel is a novelty to the audience, I'd say head out and gig as soon as you have learned to tune the thing and play it reasonably in tune. After all, how many steel players are going to be in the audience breathing down your neck? Unless you're in a major steel city like Nashville or Austin, not many.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 23 Nov 2006 6:51 pm

I was gigging within 3 months of owning a pedal steel. I was terrible ! My early charts had things like the letter G with a big 3 next to it. That meant if the chord was G I could put my bar at the 3rd fret and I have a fair shot at hitting a couple right notes. I was the one that scored the gig at the bar so the band couldn't fire me ! I practiced all week for my big tuesday night gig for a couple years. I used to have to solo on all the tunes. I just wanted to play pedal steel really badly so I did. It was a fun time for me.

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Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 23 Nov 2006 7:05 pm

I was in a band and playing guitar so when I bought it I just figured out the tunes the band wanted to play. I learned faster than any other time since.

I miss not playing with a band now as I believe that is the best way to grow. Right now I just can't fit it in. If you can find a place to play do it!

Russ

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 23 Nov 2006 7:18 pm

As soon as you feel competent enough to "fake it". Playing with other musicians is the best way to grow and learn touch, timing, when to lay out, volume balance, and simply how to "blend".

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 23 Nov 2006 7:35 pm

I picked up my S-10 MSA on a Wednesday and played gigs Fri/Sat/Sun that weekend and most every other one for quite a few years.

As soon as you feel comfortable and your bandmates are no longer throwing stuff at you, go for it.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
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James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 23 Nov 2006 8:54 pm

My question has a mean twist to it. I don't feel there is anything to gain by seeing how FAST you can end up in a band, just because you have a guitar and have guts enough to get on stage with it. In fact, I would venture to guess that under those circumstances, technique goes right out the window, and many fall on their face and lose confidence, and they actually set themselves back by jumping out too soon.

I wonder how much technique and skill level an average player can develope in such a short period of time as mentioned in the above posts. I would have liked to have heard what ya'll actually sounded like with your band, and would you do that again at the skill level you had then. I know I sure wouldn't, if I could do it over again! You sure wouldn't want to hear what I sounded like! I KNOW I tested the patience of those who heard me! My apologies to those! AH HA!

Would it not better to have technique and skill level to a satisfactory level first? I mean there is "can't play yet" and "can finally play good enough to not be offensive now, and actually contribute to the mix/music". I have heard some beginners, (me included) and I sure wouldn't let them near my intended audience, as I feel if you can't play satisfactorly, you should work that out at home, not on stage, with a "forge ahead no matter what" attitude. I do not see how the pressure of learning the steel guitar can be enhanced by throwing the pressure of trying to "not play offensively first time out on stage", on to a newbie steeler. I can not believe band mates would appreciate, let alone tolerate a novice steel player just jumping in no matter what, just because he's got a steel guitar and is available.

Yours truly'
Devil's Advocate

[This message was edited by James Morehead on 23 November 2006 at 09:02 PM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 23 Nov 2006 9:04 pm

James, I don't know about the other, but that's not what I was implying. But I do think that as soon as you can "get away with it" you should try to play with and in front of people. Not all gigs are high-pressure, and neither are all bands.

If you wait until you are certain you know what you're doing, you might NEVER venture out of the bedroom. I've met many fine players who are intimidated and do not feel they are up to snuff when they'd smoke a lot of players.

It's better to push yourself just slightly IMO.

Greely Baggett · Post by **Greely Baggett** » 23 Nov 2006 10:28 pm

IMMEDIATELY...

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Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 24 Nov 2006 12:01 am

I was out playing with a band after spending a few weeks obsessively (12 or more hrs/day) trying to figure out the basics my Emmons student model. The band had just lost their lap steel player, they wanted a new steel player and preferred the idea of a PSG, there was nobody else around who could and would do it, I had played slide guitar and a bit of lap steel for a long time, and I had a Tele with a B-Bender that I could use when I got lost. The guys were very patient - that was very important.

At first, I played steel on the very simple tunes and switched to the B-Bender when needed. I worked hard to stick with simple things and stay in tune as much as I could. It was real rough at first, but I'm sure I learned a lot more this way. A year later, I played in a production of "Always, Patsy Cline". The theatre company had come up short looking for an experienced local steel player, and I had done some other multi-instrumental work with them, so they gave me a chance and I got through it. I spent 2 months in preparation, woodshedding the tunes several hours a day, then spent several weeks in rehearsal. The play reviewer (who, in fairness, probably didn't know much about PSG) actually commented in his review that the steel added a lot. There were times I was in mortal terror of completely fouling up. I had to give up everything else I was doing - most of my regular guitar gigs, running my guitar store, everything for an entire summer - to spend time to devote to this, but I think it was worth it.

For me, I guess it would depend on the situation. I think it's a good idea to make the first gig with some people who are relaxed, patient, supportive, and really love the steel guitar. But I think that if you can play reasonably in tune, can at least execute simple ideas that sound good in context, and are willing to take constructive criticism and work your butt off to make it work, I would do it.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 24 Nov 2006 1:08 am

James, much of it will depend on how well you know the band members and how much you have practiced with them. Some friendly band members will let you up on stage with them just to let you throw in a few very basic chords now and then (as you have practiced with them) or a chord or two with a nice bar slide.

I was doing this with a small four piece band three weeks after I got my first steel. I knew exactly what and where I was to throw in a chord or two and a couple of bar slides, then faked it the rest of the song. never did get paid for the work

If you have a basic knowledge of chord structure, you will be able to drop them in place with ease.

Warning, don’t get brave or over confident because something you experimented with worked the last time you tried it so you want to surprise the band by doing it again; unrehearsed. A sour note or a lemon aid slide can be heard no matter what your volume is: or so it seems.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 24 Nov 2006 2:55 am

I bought my first pedal steel in Oct 69 and in January I did my first gig with Oscar Shields a well known singer in the DC area. However, I had played lap steel initially and then went to lead guitar and bass so I wasn't totally lost as far as music.

But as soon as you can do something "meaningful" (whatever that means) the best atmosphere is in a band where you must do it. I've learned more being in a band and in the position you "must do it".

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 24 Nov 2006 3:17 am

James, there is a real answer, and I THINK I have it, although I've been wrong before.

You should start to play out when you actually do have a working knowledge of the Instrument, even if it is at best minimal.

If you know that the A Pedal gives you the relative minor, the AB peds give you the 4th and you have a knowledge of fret postions as compared to a 6 string..then by all means put it to work, even if it means playing simple 1,4 or 5 chords behind the band.

If your minimal knowledge includes knowing the standard string grips then you have enough basic skills to go out and hang with a band, even if you play basic and simple.

thats my take..

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 24 November 2006 at 03:21 AM.]

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 24 Nov 2006 4:59 am

Once you know where the basic chords are... go for it. You won't sound any less in the mix than a rythm guitar

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 24 Nov 2006 5:57 am

If you have a sense of musicianship about you, then you will naturally fit in with the dynamic of the band. Most guys starting on pedal steel have had years of experience in bands already, playing guitar, bass, etc. So if the sensibility is there, half the battle is won. Why do you think we use a volume pedal as a piece of essential gear?

Mike Ester · Post by **Mike Ester** » 24 Nov 2006 7:30 am

Remember, there is a difference between gigging and jamming.

A beginner should try to jam with others as soon as possible. You will definitely learn quicker by playing with others. Any audience that is at a jam is usually appreciative, no matter how many clams you throw out.

On the other hand, gigging usually involves money. You probably shouldn't try gigging until you are completely comfortable with kick-offs and endings. YMMV

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 24 Nov 2006 7:33 am

I would venture to say that there is a strong possiblity our guitar heros started out by jumping right in.
I know that Marion Hall found herself, at seventeen, on tour in Alaska, playing steel with an accomplished band. I think she wrote it was trial by fire.
I would agree that if one were a soloist that having a skill level down is essential. however, being a part in a band is just that...a contributing member.
I believe one cannot learn in a vacuum. these days self taught computer lessons are common and are so foreign to how I learned.
proper bands rehearse. they communicate and work out songs and sets.
that is a great way to learn.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 24 Nov 2006 7:54 am

All good comments. Jim Sliff, You bring up an interesting point. That would be the pendulum swinging the other way--completely the other way. The player who gets "expert" but never ever goes out to show his goods. In that case, it may be the person does not care about going public, or it may be a lack of confidence.[This message was edited by James Morehead on 24 November 2006 at 07:56 AM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 24 Nov 2006 8:21 am

James, I have known several like that who just smoked but suffered from terminal stage fright. Also, a couple of guys more into music as a creative outlet, who could not have cared less about "entertaining" anyone.

Actually, my first pedal steel gig occurred during my first, and very short, attept at the instrument about 12 years ago. I bought a Fender S-10 thinking it was a "real" steel...not knowing anything, especially that it was too short for me and just a Maverick covered in black Tolex. I got it and a chord chart from somewhere, fooled around fro 4-5 hours a night for a week, and played a gig with my band (I'd been playing b-bender) playing nothing but steel for 4 sets. As Tony mentioned - it was 1, IV, V and a few minors; we kept the complicated songs out of it, and if I felt lost I just laid out.

I got away with it, got lots of compliments, but personally felt I sounded like crap, played like crap, and hated the guitar with a passion, since I was fighting the size, the changer, stability, etc. It went from the gig to the closet and sat there until I sold it! A *one* week steel career, with one gig, mercifully not caught on tape!

But my point is, nobody but ME seemed to think it sucked, so unless your audience is full of steel players I suggest the Nike idea: "Just go do it".

Realistically, since I spent most of the last 18 months building various guitars into playable ones I have only REALLY been playing for 6 months or so (at least on what I would consider a finished instrument...up to that point I was still adding rather important parts to my 400). I played in fron tof humans after about 3 months, and although I think I was playing very rudimentary things with a few "tricks", I really had no problems and it helped me work on not *overplaying*, which is what happens to most steel players practicing songs...at least I would guess that would be the case. Live, I mostly learned that laying out makes the steel much more important to the song when it comes back in. Caveat - I have over two decades of Dobro and lapsteel playing to draw on, so things like picking, attack, some blocking, bar movement and vibrato were already in my "quiver".

But I still think a beginner on steel who has played other instruments should try to get it out there in public as soon as possible, and roll with the punches. You'll probably be much better in everyone else's ears/eyes than in your own.

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 24 Nov 2006 10:21 am

I took lessons for three months and was hired by the first band I auditioned with and I'm still at it 25 years later.

If you have a fair working knowledge of the instrument then go for it.

Keith DeLong · Post by **Keith DeLong** » 24 Nov 2006 10:33 am

Tony's right about learning where the minors are,and finding different positions and voicings for the major chords as well. I only play about 2-3 steel gigs a year, I play mostly lead, but if anyone asaks me to play steel , I go--you can always lay back and play what you know and keep it simple, in fact, that's better than trying to jam all your licks in one song, or worse yet, playing melody behind the singer

Kyle Everson · Post by **Kyle Everson** » 24 Nov 2006 10:46 am

Depends on how much time you've put into it. I did my first gig at 3 weeks, joined my first touring band at 2 months. But then again, I was in college, and I practiced instead of studying

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Kyle Everson
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[This message was edited by Kyle Everson on 24 November 2006 at 10:46 AM.][This message was edited by Kyle Everson on 24 November 2006 at 10:47 AM.]

Dillon Jackson · Post by **Dillon Jackson** » 24 Nov 2006 10:56 am

pressure makes diamonds, playing in public is a huge motivator for practice and improvement. If your band or your audience doesn't think you are up to it--they will let you know. I can't agree that there is anything wrong with pushing yourself as long as you don't fool yourself about your ability.

I auditioned to add the steel to the band after 6 months and performed a month later, It was simple, but it was clean, on the beat, and in tune. I keep adding better tone, mixing chord choices, color chords, transitions etc AND Jeff Newman is right--so the more I play the LESS I play.

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Dillon Jackson
abiband.com
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Jim Walker · Post by **Jim Walker** » 24 Nov 2006 8:33 pm

ASAP!

I have been playing PSG since January of this year, I had my rig out in May for the first time. I got paid $20 for a two hour show at a club here in town but never heard from that band again. I was definatly over paid... Ha! But by Halloween I got a call to sit in with another band on a short notice and at the end of the night they paid me $150 and hired me for all future bookings. (I had obviously improved). This time I felt I deserved the money because I realized at the first gig I sucked, so I tripled my practice schedule, bought a better guitar, and spent a weekend in Nashvile for much needed inspiration. I currently average 4 to 5 hours a day of practice with tracks and CMT. Most of all, I'm on a mission to play steel full time so I have to, because I have to....

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