Bland in a Box

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 6 Dec 2006 7:11 am

BIAB - $59?????????

I just did the 2007 upgrade and that cost me $150. 2007 Mega Pak full version cost $269. This is just for the software. Then you have to add the hardware. Plus, there's third party add ons too. If you don't want to take the time to learn how to use it, spend additional money, and are content with the toy like sounds, the $59 version is okay. The add ons are for advanced users that are using BIAB in conjunction with a good GM 1 or GM 2 Midi sound module of some type and interface equipment that will reproduce tracks that are listening music quality. You can get a bunch of money tied up pretty quickly if you want a more professional quality sound.

Tony is correct. BIAB and midi sequencing programs are different animals. In this thread they have been referred to in a generic sense because they are both computer assisted means of producing music. Just as Telecaster and Zum are both guitars, but we know the two are not interchangable.

If you just want a reason to criticize what you don't understand, the $59 "Fisher Price" version should serve you just fine.

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Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Dec 2006 8:21 am

it's not $59 ? what do I know..

I purchased version 2006 band in a Box..on EBAY, sealed new, for $59...

I guess that was a good deal.

But it doesn't have all the styles, just the default ones that come with it.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Dec 2006 8:33 am

My initial attraction to computers was an Atari 400 program that allowed you to enter music, and it would play it. Sounded like a kaliope. Really bad, but I was hooked. The computer could play things that my musician friends couldn't or wouldn't. That was the real attraction. Eventually I ended up on an Atari 1040 ST doing stuff like this.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 6 Dec 2006 9:31 am

The computer could play things that my musician friends couldn't or wouldn't. That was the real attraction.

Isn't that the real value of BIAB? No rehearsals, no charts, and no arguments about the correct chords! Bland it may be, but incorrect it is not!

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<img width=100 src=http://genejones.bizland.com/index.1.jpg>www.genejones.com

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 28 December 2006 at 04:56 AM.]

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 6 Dec 2006 10:14 am

Bobby, I really liked your song, who did you get that arrangement from? Sri Chinmoy?[This message was edited by Andy Sandoval on 06 December 2006 at 10:17 AM.]

Mark Butcher · Post by **Mark Butcher** » 6 Dec 2006 11:20 am

I used BIAB a lot when it first appeared it must be fifteen years ago. Then I bought a Yamaha QY700 which is a hardware sequencer. You can enter a chord track like in BIAB then a pattern track and add melody tracks too. You can set groove maps and a control every aspect of its timing and sound. It beats BIAB in every way. I think its still available and certainly the more portable slightly less powerful QY70 crops up on ebay.

Mark

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 6 Dec 2006 11:58 am

Just a couple of comments...

Like b0b, I worked on computer-generated music way back when, and like him decided that "humanize" functions are nonsense. A real musician doesn't make random adjustments to timing, timbre, volume, etc. They do it to a purpose. Adjusting the feel of a shuffle is a great example. Dragging or pushing the beat, rubbing the shuffle against straight eighths...

As a semi-sidebar, I find it a little annoying that people are so willing to accept programmed drums and bass. How about a programmed PSG, y'all? Don't really need a steel player, right? As a sometimes bass and drums player, I guarantee you there's as much going on with pace, timing, voicing, tone and the like with the rhythm section as there is with the other instruments. If you want a living, organic, emotional sound you need people, not machines.

-eric[This message was edited by Eric Jaeger on 06 December 2006 at 11:59 AM.]

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 6 Dec 2006 12:16 pm

Contrary to many of the posts here I use BIAB with a specific purpose. Over the past couple of years I have become a much better player . I have worked on a number of instrumentals and BIAB has helped me play better. I play with 4 different bands here in New Mexico. I have enough gigs to keep me very busy. I have fought with all 4 bands about playing an instrumental or 3 during a 4-5 hour gig. I don't think that is too much to ask since i do play them fairly well. Of course if i don't play them regularly i forget the details and cannot play them. Not one of my bands will call them at a gig. Once in a great while i will be called to play Panhandle rag or Way to Survive. The others all become history. So in order to hone my skill at these tunes i bought BIAB and it has been a lifesaver. I am not sure why these bandleaders refuse to let the control go for a song or 2 but at least I can continue to grow as a player thanks to BIAB.......

[This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 06 December 2006 at 12:17 PM.]

David Kitchen · Post by **David Kitchen** » 6 Dec 2006 4:38 pm

RON SODOS said:I can continue to gro as a player thanks to BIAB I like that,thanks RON

Ron Turner · Post by **Ron Turner** » 7 Dec 2006 6:22 pm

Some of you guys keeping talking about the cheap sound of BIAB. Do you know that you can play BIAB through your expensive external sound modules?

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 7 Dec 2006 6:56 pm

To quote my buddy Andy Greatrix "It won't replace the good musicians but it will replace the bad ones"

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 7 Dec 2006 9:01 pm

The type of virtual or real synth
that you send your BiaB midi info to
determines the quality of your sounds.

Simple as that.
it does the arranging and the midi conversion.

A cheezy sampler or synth emulator on
a low end sound card WILL sound cheezy.

But into good samplers and tweeked after
export as a midi file into a good sequencer, and you can make it sound more than acceptable.

Here is a track started wtih BiaB.

Just A Thought

It can be a very useful tool.
For orginization and bassic track layout at fast speeds.
It can still have some of it's generated output
in well produced good sounding tracks.
It;s up to you to give it something good to make the sounds.

I used it in 'Just A Thought',
before the good musicians were avgailable.
When none are available, or in my case the charts were too hard for group sight reading,
with the AVAILABLE musicans.
It didn't stop me from writing and arranging.
The good musicians showed up and then had something very clear to play too.

The last player was the acouatic grand piano,
recorded in NYC.
But the drummer came just before him recorded in France.

Also can you tell where the whole track was edited,
including multi tracked drums, to allow for another solo slot?

The guitar player was American, recorded in France,
but the charts and the session were arranged,
between Boston and Nimes France
via Biab files, and mp3's
on AOL IM and emails.
Biab is VERY useful even in professional contexts.

Sure I love a real band playing live,
but sometimes it is not practical.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 07 December 2006 at 09:08 PM.]

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 8 Dec 2006 3:00 pm

Bland in a Box, I've heard it called a lot of things. I know some players in CA that have been using it in studio recordings for some time, that you probably wouldn't have thought it was "Bland in a Box."
I say use what you want, why does it matter what the picker used for backup music. What's next,will you not buy an album because the player didn't play your brand of steel on the recording.

Cons of BIAB
1. 2 Step places want live bands.
2. The musicians that play, want to play with other musicians.
3. It don't have the live feel.

Pros of BIAB
1. The music is always on.
2. You make more money.
3. It does what you setup.
4. It doesn't feel like you are hogging the show.

The End Results!

1. BIAB is not canned music, it's an aid.
2. We will all be replaced with the guy that has the Karaoke setup. He makes 150.00 a night, and you sit home!

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 8 Dec 2006 3:40 pm

Hey David, very cool tune and I couldn't tell where the midi left off and the live instruments started or if there were any midi samples or any live instruments.

What I'm trying to say is midi composers like you (if you were the composer) are a big help to midi composers all over the world. I've been using midi in my studios since the late 70's and early 80's and I love it for what it is. It's a tool nothing more or nothing less. In the right hands as in yours it can be responsible for some great music! Keep up the good work!

Bob

PS let's get together sometime and collaborate on some midi stuff!

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 8 Dec 2006 5:41 pm

Why use it for jams?...maybe because most bass players, drummers, etc. are not too interested in playing Blue Eyes Cryin' in the Rain while 23 different steel players of different talent level struggle thru it.

A better answer would be to have the 23 steel players all get headphones...they would get more practice that way.

I have had updated editions of BIAB since day one. I use it thru Edirol's Sound canvas, as well as some other sample/synth gadgets. As stated by others..BIAB has no sounds of it own...it just controls others.

I have tried to get DR. Gannon & Co. to make it so that one can add numbers and letters to the musical staves, or the "TAB" thingy....no luck.

It is educational, flexible, affordable, continually sober, not opinionated or controlling, consistant, and does not make moves on the lady vocalist.

I used JAMMER back when also.

Have not messed with the GARAGE BAND thing.

Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 8 Dec 2006 6:22 pm

I just listened to the tutorial. These new upgrades are pretty amazing. The wav. files of real drummers are really cool. If you play a song at 170 bpm the drums are different for when you play a song at 60 bpm because it assigns a different track actually played by the real drummer at different speeds automatically...very cool. You can also run a mp3, wav., and a few more through and and it will automatically assign the correct chords to the song, great time saver and fully adjustable to the first beat of the song and more!. Just for fun I played a cd that was conveniently in my music room and compared it to a biab track comparing specifically the real drum track in biab, pretty damm close. It is an amazing tool and just keeps getting better. Even the soft synth with the program sounds good now (it use to sound pretty bad)but I still prefer using my Edirol SD-20. Sounds cheezie, I think not.[This message was edited by W Franco on 08 December 2006 at 06:42 PM.]