Older steel players

Jerry Delpaz · Post by **Jerry Delpaz** » 20 Oct 2006 2:15 pm

I am one of those that love the older style,country music.I have noticed watching tv lately you hardly ever see any steel players over 50 anywhere.Why? The greats of the steel guitar are seldom seen and I hate that.These are the guys I only dream of being able to play like and you are seldom able to ever see any of them on tv anymore.It seems like everyone has hired the younger players.Is it just because they are young or what.I know they can't and are not nearly as good as the older players,but I can only hope some of the singers will go back and start using the older steel players soon,so we can hear some of the really great licks its hard to hear from these younger guys....Only my thoughts,whats yours.............

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 20 Oct 2006 4:04 pm

Some of whom you speaketh.........
have departed this great land.

Others have suffered strokes or other dibilitating physical problems.........

Others have suffered mental set-backs...and/or, picking finger speed just isn't what it used to be.

Many had the good judgement to "Quit Playing" while they were still capable of doing a great job.

Frankly, I'm seperiencing some of those set-backs at this time and quite truthfully, I cannot picture a life, my life, without being able to play the steel guitar.

That would be dreadful......... (I'm 70!)

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 20 Oct 2006 4:32 pm

Bobbe Seymour's latest email missive, "Bobbe's Tips", discusses this very topic. Bands are firing their "elder" steel players, hiring green guys who can't play all that well but are young and have the youthful image most artists playing the road seek these days.

I thank George Strait for keeping his veteran musicians as his road band, they play great, and he know and appreciates it, apparently. You're one class act, George!

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Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 20 Oct 2006 4:47 pm

I am an older steel player, almost 73 now. I do not play clubs anymore, but I do play 3 times each week for nursing homes, alzheimer units, etc. I have been doing this for 8 1/2 years now and will continue until I can't play any more. I just abolutely love the steel guitar. I fell in love with it at the age of 10 and have not wavered since then.
You gotta do what you gotta do. I love it.
There is always something for the older steel players to do, if they really want and can still play.

Wayne D. Clark · Post by **Wayne D. Clark** » 20 Oct 2006 5:38 pm

Jerry, I'm 73 like Robert, I remember those days in the late 40's and 50's when we all played lap steel and patterened our style after our favorites. We were young then, could do Long Trips, Play night after night. But to day is today, I can't play those fast licks any more, I'm happy I can play at church or a family outing or a nursing home. I had my time, I think some of the younger players are fab. It was a different time a different insterment. I'm glad the younger kids are picking up the insterment and playing it. It's more popular today then ever.

National Lap Steel
Home made Amp - 1945

Fender Double 8
Volume & Tone Foot pedal
Fender Amp 1954

Desert Rose S10 3/5
Goodrich 120
Nashville 400 2006

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 20 Oct 2006 5:40 pm

Ditto, John. George knows what works ....

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 20 Oct 2006 5:47 pm

"The greats of the steel guitar are seldom seen and I hate that."

If you're talking about seeing them on TV, it has nothing to do with playing skill. Older players don't sell "soap". Or "beauty products". Or "cars".

TV appearances are all about what the advertisers want - it's all marketing. They (the advertisers and network execs) look at demographics, what age levels have the bulk of the buying potential for advertised products, run focus groups to see what appeals to THOSE people - and book bands/players/acts that appeal to the people that do the "soap" buying.

This may sound harsh - but they don't care about you. "You" - meaning folks who want to see older players - just want to see older players, and dial out or ignore the commercials. "You" are not apt to go buy a new Scion. But a 25 year old single female living in San Francisco is - so they'll put on acts to appeal to her, because SHE is the one that will end up paying the bills.

She wants to see some buffed out dudes and stylish girls. not a white beard. She doesn't "hear" the difference...making the sound irrelevant. Besides, the "sound" is canned most of the time anyway, and what you "see" aren't people "playing" - they're "acting at playing".

You don't pay the bills - you don't get what you want.

Reality check of the day.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 20 Oct 2006 6:40 pm

Jim S - That is certainly the marketeers view of it, but their "control" of this is very tenuous, IMO.

1. Your argument implies that "they" own the airwaves. They don't, unless you view "current possession" as "ownership". The airwaves are supposed to be operated "in the public interest". But we're on a hiatus from FCC support of that idea. The airwaves could be taken back at any time - but it probably won't happen while the current administration is in power.

2. I also disagree that the primary purchasing power is in the hands of 25-year-old females. Honestly, so-called "baby boomers" are at their maximum earning power right now and are also the largest demographic group by far. The proof of this concept is that paid-for broadcasting is heavily tilted at us now - we have the bucks and they know well that we have contempt for what's happening on the free airwaves.

I think the problem here is that baby-boomers are relatively sophisticated - they've been around the block a bunch of times, and critical reasoning skills were much more prevalent in schools 30-40 years ago. This doesn't appeal to the simplistic, jingoistic marketing appeals that most marketeers are capable of. Why deal with sophisticated consumers who knows what they want when they can shove whatever they please down the throats of younger and - on average - less sophisticated audiences.

So I agree that "they" don't care about older folks - right now. But as boomers head into retirement, they have more free time and appetite for leisure and music - and will become a more and more important market as they do. I think the marketeers ignore this at their own peril. I also think that as boomers head into retirement, there will be serious political upheaval as boomer senior-citizens find it necessary to protect their turf. It ain't over till it's over, and that's not gonna happen till we're six feet under. As always, IMO.

Steve Dodson · Post by **Steve Dodson** » 20 Oct 2006 6:58 pm

You have a good point David.

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 20 Oct 2006 7:16 pm

John...

"I thank George Strait for keeping his veteran musicians as his road band, they play great, and he know and appreciates it, apparently."

The reason all those guys work with him still is because THEY own HIM. He can't fire 'em. They were a working band, George used to sit in with them, and when their singer quit, they figured they'd "hire that Straight kid. He sings pretty good." They did, and after that, he got his deal. They can dump him, if they want... but that's not likely.

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Mikey D...

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 20 Oct 2006 7:47 pm

"I also disagree that the primary purchasing power is in the hands of 25-year-old females. "

I know, that was just a purposely-distorted example.

The baby boomers do have more purchasing power, but in regards to demographics, advertising has much less influence on how they *excercise* it. The 25-35's have less "power", but more "loose" dollars affected by advertising.

The stuff about the public owning the airwaves is unfortunately a pipe dream. It hasn't been that way since the 1950's and it will likely never change. The advertisers will always dictate the nature of broadcast television...and are increasingly in control of cable/satellite.

"Sexy" sells, and "sexy" is younger, not older. I don't know if any of you have ever experienced a "pitch" meeting, but the first question isn't "what's the show about?" - it's "who is the target audience?" If that part sounds good, the meeting continues. If the target is 50-year old married couples...meeting over.

(Edited only to correct my usual mess of typos...)[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 22 October 2006 at 07:57 AM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 20 Oct 2006 8:54 pm

I don't know if any of you have ever experienced a "pitch" meeting...

Yes I have - that was a long time ago, and it was not far different than what you describe. It sometimes amazes me how little they learn. Hucksterism can only take a culture so far, and I think we're reaching the limit. No matter what they think - people really aren't sheep to be herded. Statistics don't read peoples minds.

I already agreed that this is the way things are done now. But I believe the world is going to change markedly in the next 10 years. It's not clear exactly what will happen - but I wouldn't count the boomers out. For the last 25 years, boomers have been fragmented while they raised families and built careers. But I think concern over retirement, health care, security, and a sense of marked hostility from younger generations will make them an unbelievably powerful voting block that has to be reckoned with. I don't see them giving up power that easily. The political and cultural landscape can change overnight, given the right conditions. Of course, that's just my opinion, and I don't claim to have a crystal ball.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 21 Oct 2006 6:13 am

"I don't claim to have a crystal ball. "

Gee, I do - but it's been in the shop for years. Still isn't fixed.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 21 Oct 2006 7:28 am

i read here on the forum quite often about people complaining about modern music not having great steel and touring bands with young players who aren't so hot. from what i see and hear, though, most of these younger pickers are really hot, playing quite like the pros who did the studio recordings....and i think some great steel is being recorded these days....paul franklin, bruce boutin, russ pahl, etc.. this stuff is great,youngsters are copping the licks, and i'm jealous.....at 58!

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 21 Oct 2006 11:55 am

How old was Buddy E. Jimmy Day when they first played on TV? Did the older players say-Where are the older steel players. I can remember back then,some things never change. We get older and think defferent. I'm 67 and trying hard to think young,but older people are trying to make me think old. Joe
www.willowcreekband.com

Steven Black · Post by **Steven Black** » 21 Oct 2006 12:07 pm

Well, if it were not for the Elder steel players being out there to teach us younger players, steel guitar probably would not be known or even be around, and what is life without steel guitar? So I tip my hat to all you older players for putting up with me while teaching me, and helping me through not throwing my bar thru a nearby window, and for putting up hearing all those funny little words come out of my mouth, when I screwed up a note. Older players just keep getting better.

Pete Young · Post by **Pete Young** » 21 Oct 2006 1:48 pm

I guess I am strange I am 71 and I love to see a young guy play steel.They pull some hot licks and they put a different spin on the music. I had my time and now its up to them to carry on I used to race dirt bikes but I can't anymore. And some of the stuff they do I would never dream of. All you young guys go for it Its a simple thing called OLD AGE

Don Barnhardt · Post by **Don Barnhardt** » 21 Oct 2006 4:39 pm

Youth has always driven the music industry (for the last hundred years or so anyway). People in their 80's and 90's were the ones that made the big band era when they were kids. It dosen't matter how good we may still be they aren't interested in going out to see their daddys or paw paws. Remember when PSG came out in the 50's some of the younger steelers made the transition but some really outstanding steelers passed into oblivion. Professionals in many fields pass their prime by the time they're 40 (take athletes for instance). Why cry about it? We can still play and listen to what we want we just can't get the top gigs anymore.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 21 Oct 2006 4:44 pm

What Jim said.

Music Biz 101 - Same rules in rock apply to country. It's a business.

Consumers want an image to go with their music, and good lookin' young stuff is easier on the eyes. That's a reality. The music industry perpetuates itself with new product and new faces. Image trumps genius every time.

Boomers will buy CD's of their glory days music over current top 40. I don't care how many boomers there are, their buying power as it relates to CD sales is not going to set a new trend for middle-aged guys playing steel guitar.

Rather than running down the new young guys working the road we should be glad that steel is still represented at all. You were young once, too (weren't you?).

IMHO, of course...

Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Red guitars sound better!

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 21 October 2006 at 05:56 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 21 Oct 2006 6:54 pm

Youth absolutely did not always rule the music biz. Bandleaders like Lawrence Welk and Mitch Miller, and many older 'middle-of-the-road' stars had strong markets, and built large empires based on older folks. The players were of mixed ages, but the target demographic was definitely older. Of course, a boomer version of Lawrence Welk would probably be quite different, but right now, there's no way for such things to exist, even though there is a strong market for it - again, IMO.

I also am not running down younger stars or players. I frequently play with 20-somethings myself - lots of good music there also. But I am running down FCC-tolerated monopolistic practices which have closed the open-air market to anything but youth-oriented and talk radio, idiotic "reality" shows, moronic sit-coms and talk shows, whatever. I believe there are strong niche markets out there for other stuff, but it has been deliberately suppressed. This is not "free enterprise in the public interest". One can cynically say it's hopeless - fine. I and many others don't accept it. Only time will tell if it's possible to reverse some of this. IMO, as always.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 22 Oct 2006 7:06 am

"Boomers will buy CD's of their glory days music over current top 40."

Very key point. The "boomer" music market is box sets and CD's of what they own...or used to own...on vinyl. Remember (this often gets twisted on music forums) that *we* are NOT typical music consumers. We buy totally different stuff than non-musicians, and they outnumber us 1000-1 (some may have a guitar or piano or something, but they don't play gigs, look at music forums, subscribe to music mags, buy books, or seek out specialty CD's).

So your "boomer" demographics need to be adjusted to excude yourselves - because we are weird exceptions to the rule.

And Dave, I absolutely agree about the state of radio, which is why I don't listen to it except for traffic reports - and if XM would get their L.A. traffic station to actually relate things in real time and accurately, I could put tape over the dial of my truck radio and forget it's even there. I actually only have one station preset - traffic every 6 minutes all day.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 22 Oct 2006 12:49 pm

Just a few remarks on the subject. I am 76 tears young. I had just about decided to hang it up because of lack of job offers (except for studio) and they were only a few. I auditioned for a band that their average age is 25 yrs. They had been using younger players that were good players, but the guys said they played too loud and walked all over the singer and lead player. I came up in the old school where you play to compliment the singer(mostly on the end of the lines) and lay out when other instruments ane playing. I got the job and am having a blast educating this group of young musicians. Jody.[This message was edited by Jody Sanders on 22 October 2006 at 01:51 PM.][This message was edited by Jody Sanders on 22 October 2006 at 01:53 PM.]

Don Barnhardt · Post by **Don Barnhardt** » 22 Oct 2006 4:08 pm

I stand by What I said. Lawrence Welk and Mitch Miller are exceptions (every rule has a few). The original question was why don't you see the old players on TV and Jim Sliff answered that on his first post. I don't want to dictate what sponsors push I imagine any sponsor that wants to cater to geezers are free to do so. Maybe we could get some of the older players to push Ensure or ED cures and incontinence aids.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 22 Oct 2006 5:17 pm

I stand by What I said. Lawrence Welk and Mitch Miller are exceptions (every rule has a few).

IMO, Welk and Miller were not exceptions. Jackie Gleason, Perry Como, and many others featured older players and singers. Shows like Ed Sullivan had a wide variety of acts, encompassing every generation. Things have changed markedly since then.

I don't want to dictate what sponsors push I imagine any sponsor that wants to cater to geezers are free to do so.

I disagree that there is any concept of "free airwaves". This is an oligopoly, controlled by just a few media companies. They do whatever they want, but they operate under licences that say they are supposed to operate "in the public interest". I agree with Jim S. that this is a phrase that has essentially lost its practical meaning in the last decade. But I disagree that we should just stand around and say it's OK.

I also think it's a little ridiculous to think that the only thing older folks are good for is pushing Ensure and incontinence aids. No disrespect intended, but I think that's just more stereotyping. Anyway, it's getting to the point where "old" is considered to be >40. 40-55 or 60 is when most people are, mentally and playing-wise, in their prime.

Naturally, all IMHO. {edited for grammar issue.}[This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 22 October 2006 at 06:20 PM.]

Jim Hartley · Post by **Jim Hartley** » 22 Oct 2006 6:07 pm

There are quite a few reasons mentioned in this thread, mostly about the youth movement, but there is also the other side of the coin. I know when I was on the road, after a few years, all we talked about was how could we stay in the business, but get off the road. I know this is only one reason, but I'm sure it's another factor in the equation.