The Student

Elizabeth West · Post by **Elizabeth West** » 1 Oct 2006 6:28 pm

With all the learning materials available today for E9th, such as,Tapes,books&Tab,VHS,CD.DVD and now software.Why are the beginners finding it so difficult to learn the basics on this instrument.The materials over the years helped make it easyer for me to continue learning.However,when I first started I had me only a cord chart.I leared the open cord positions for the key of G.G,C,D. Were 3th fret G then the 8th fret C cord, 10 fret D cord.This became a patten G cord start up 5 frets to C cord then up two frets was the D. cord. I learned a few licks and started playing along with records. It's not that difficuit to learn and understand this instrument. It takes time to play like Buddy or Lloyd and some of will never get to that level. However If thats ones goal.Therefore are they not getting the right learning materials to help them.

Mark Treepaz · Post by **Mark Treepaz** » 1 Oct 2006 7:20 pm

Yes. But you also have to remember that some of these students are sitting down to this instrument without any prior knowledge of chords and music theory. Let's face it, with PSG, a decent prior knowledge of chordal theory provides a great "jump start" into learning this instrument. Then again, I know of PSG players that know very little music theory and play mostly by position. (Some pretty darned good players too!)

As far as learning materials, yes there are a lot of good instructional materials out there. However, like anything else there is also a lot of junk as well. For example, a lot don't even bother to illustrate or discuss the proper way to adjust and wear the finger picks, amongst other things important for a beginner to know.

By the same token, everyone's learning abilities are entirely different from each other. Way back (I won't say how way back) when I started studying trumpet from a private teacher, I ended up playing in small combo 7 months after I blew the thing for the first time. However, there were students studying with the same teacher, same study methods and all, that still hand not been able (playing ability wise) to step onto a stage even several years after picking up the horn.

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Sho-Bud LDG, Gretsch Syncromatic Lap Steel, Bach Stradivarious 37 Trumpet, Getzen Flugelhorn, Fender Precision Bass (pre-CBS)

[This message was edited by Mark Trzepacz on 01 October 2006 at 08:37 PM.]

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 1 Oct 2006 8:21 pm

I find that it's important to really nail down proper technique really well. There is a lot of material out there, and it is NOT created equal. I've bought some myself, that might not show proper technique, and without some proper guidance, a student might find himself/herself spending a lot of time relearning. (I've been real fortunate to have a couple fine teachers along the way.) Some students quit at this point. If you want it bad enough, you'll overcome any obstacle. I've still got a long, long ways to go, but I sure am enjoying the journey!

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 1 Oct 2006 10:15 pm

I've been at it since 1971 and still consider myself a student. I'm still learning things that have been right under my nose for years and years. There's so many resources available for PSG today until I believe a player will always be able to pick up something somewhere that he/she didn't have before. PSG becomes a part of a player after a while. It's a way of life for many of us!

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 1 Oct 2006 10:36 pm

well like Billy said,he has been at it for over 30 years and still considers himself a student , like most of us do. so this lady is a genius or she is something else and i"m to much of a gentleman to say what!!!

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400

[This message was edited by Calvin Walley on 01 October 2006 at 11:37 PM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Oct 2006 2:22 am

It's not just the Pedal Steel, this phenomenon is true of all Instruments.

If a student is trying to learn to play a SONG and not the Instrument they will fail in the long run.

There are countless excellent programs for students at EVERY level to learn from, but if they are just going thru the mechanics of the licks or the phrases without the understanding of "WHY"..it would be no different than having the answer key for a test at school and then just filling in the blanks.

"Who was the first President of the USA" ?

Oh..I know that one..it's C...

Elizabeth above had conquered one of the basics with the relative chord positions.This is something that many did not do out of the gate or even for a very long time, if at all.

Actually, the longer we all have been playing is a direct relationship to understanding where our NEW stuff comes from.

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 02 October 2006 at 03:30 AM.]

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 2 Oct 2006 4:50 am

We live in an era of "instant gratification" as opposed to years ago where "delayed gratification" meant doing the work now for a benefit to be received later. (Dr. Morris Massey said approximately this in 1979)
One thing about the steel, it requires a lot of "up front" work..

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 2 Oct 2006 5:08 am

Calvin, If you were aware of the direction Mrs. West came from to the steel guitar world, you would realise why she said what she said. Mrs. West climbed one heck of a mountain in her younger days, and my hat's off to her for her accomplishments, and Mr. West standing behind her all the way. I have the utmost respect for this lady of steel.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 2 Oct 2006 5:25 am

I don't think that becoming a good musician is, mostly, about learning materials. Yes, it is important to have a good guide. It can be a book, a video, or an in-person teacher, and there are lots of good ones available, IMO. But, really, it's about the inner drive to really learn about music and the instrument. I mean an unquenchable desire for all possible knowledge about all aspects of both the music and instrument, that puts aside any deficiencies in the materials and learns anyway. One has a choice - to ferret out the knowledge available or lament that it's not good enough.

To me, to really learn means to put aside everything else - at least for periods of time - and totally immerse oneself. This means one must remove distractions and really focus. It means personal sacrifice, and a high level of intensity - at least for long enough periods of time to really get something done. It's difficult to do this in this modern task-juggling age, where people expect us all to multi-task all aspects of life. It's the same in all of the classically "hard" fields of academic endeavor - science, math, music, art, and so on - the areas where "objective skill development" is paramount. Talk is cheap in these areas - skill and understanding are everything.

I do agree - in the types of study I'm talking about, one is a perpetual student. One must be humble, and realize there are always new things to learn, and one has never really "mastered" it. There is a beginning, but no end. One only continues to develop by continuing intense study and sacrifice. IMO, this requires putting aside any preconceived notions of limits, and expanding as far as possible, and then pushing oneself even further.

It's been difficult for me - I'm both a scientist/engineer/mathematician and a musician, and they all require high levels of this type of intensity. I have had to time-slice, and go at it hard on one for a period, then switch. I have had to dump one for the others for periods of years to get the basic proficiency, then go back to a more balanced approach. I have to wonder sometimes if it would have been better if I had settled on just one. But I guess that model just didn't work for me.

Pete Young · Post by **Pete Young** » 2 Oct 2006 5:30 am

You must remember as Mark said, that its easier for some than others. From the time I was a kid I could repair almost anything, or build things. I can do electrictie or pluming or auto repair. Two weeks after I had a coumpter I pulled it apart to see how it worked and then changed a few things I wanted better. But when it came to music and the steel, I had to work like hell to learn it and I still do, even after thirty years playing in a band It never came easy to me. I was building steels before I could play one. I am still not a great player but I can get by. I wish I could have learned it better

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 2 Oct 2006 6:48 am

Elizabeth,
It's good to see you on the forum. And, I must tell you that, meeting you at the convention in St Louis was a treat for me. You're a very imformative person, with a great sense of humor. Your life's story is quite amazing and I'm sure there's much more to come. Keep picking that Sho-Bud, you are doing Shot proud.
Sincerely,
John De Maille VP-PSGA

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 2 Oct 2006 7:17 am

the way she worded it makes it sound very condesending , i know nothing about this lady, but she sure makes the rest of us seem like we are stupid , just because some of us ( me included ) have had a hard time of it,
maybe she is one of the gifted few, like was said here before , certain things do come easy to certain people but that's no reason to make the rest of us sound dumb

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 2 Oct 2006 10:39 am

The steel guitar is humbling, but to really feel stupid, sit down to Premiere 6, PhotoShop 7, or Flash 8 without any books... Makes me feel dumb...

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Oct 2006 10:44 am

Calvin with all due respect,there is nothing condesending in Elizabeths post what-so-ever...
what she is basically stating is that a general knowledge of the Instrument and some minimal Music theory goes a long way in overcoming hurdles, and she is totally correct.

And guess what, this applies to LIFE as we know it here on Earth, not just the Pedal Steel Guitar.

I doubt seriously that she is calling anyone stupid or anything even in the neighborhood.

What she is stating is what many basically have said here over a number of years.

Not everyone approaches Musical Instruments or daily tasks in the same manner. Some folks can grasp things rather quickly as many things make total sense to them, others , may have to look at things a few times before the details slither into the cranal cavity.

t

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 2 Oct 2006 11:26 am

http://www3.telus.net/public/west345/index.html
Calvin,
Maybe this will help.

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72 Professional 8&5,73 PRO II 8&4, 79/80 PRO III 8&4,Fender Steelking, Hilton pedal, USA Tele, Fender Twin,Peterson tuner,Tut Taylor Reso's and Twang to the Bone!!

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 2 Oct 2006 11:51 am

Elizabeth:I agree that here is some great learning material out there these days,a lot more than when I started.I find that learning how to sit at the steel guitar and get in the comfort zone,also getting used to fingerpicks,location of pedals is a lot easier understand if you can some one on one help,I taught myself how to play,and then had some great teachers who had to break some of my bad habits,I am also a slow learner...it takes time for me to really get it,I can watch a video and kind of get the drift,but to sit down with somebody is much more helpful to me.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 2 Oct 2006 12:19 pm

Calvin, Yes, Elizabeth is a very gifted person. Read her biography, and you will understand how HARD she had to work to develope that gift. Most people would have quit long after Mrs. West kept on keeping on.

Elizabeth, I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. West at St. Louis this last convention, sorry I missed meeting you. I'd sure enjoy meeting you, maybe next time.[This message was edited by James Morehead on 02 October 2006 at 01:22 PM.]

Elizabeth West · Post by **Elizabeth West** » 2 Oct 2006 6:53 pm

It was never my intention to make anyone feel stupid,I asked this question out of concern for the beginner.I've even taken it upon myself to E-mail some of the beginners just to help them out because, I do care.I send on a lesson for on fee.Once someone help me out so, I try to do the same. I don't consider myself as gifted,I try to work everyday for 2hours at my craft.I continue to take in seminers and I work on materials from Jeff Newman & Joe Wright.
John I had a great time in St,Louis guess what John? I finally got me a picture of who's Buddy and me. I met Bobby Lee, one very nice guy and so many genuine folk. I'm hopen to go back next year just, to see all them cool steels.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 2 Oct 2006 7:45 pm

Elizabeth:You didn't make me feel stupid,I do a good enough job of that on my own...I also hope that I didn't offend you,I think that your post is a very good one,I'm just one of those knuckleheads that needs somebody smacking me in the head every time I do something the wrong way,In time I'll either get it or enjoy the smack in the head.[This message was edited by Stu Schulman on 02 October 2006 at 08:51 PM.]

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 2 Oct 2006 8:20 pm

This is a really good thread. Gets you thinkin'!!

[This message was edited by James Morehead on 02 October 2006 at 09:21 PM.]

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 2 Oct 2006 8:43 pm

It's not that difficuit to learn and understand this instrument.

with all due respect that statement is a whopper. many of us will disagree with it
yes there is a lot of teaching materails now . however it seems as if there is no consensus of how it should be taught.
keep in mind that we can't seem to agree on how it should be tuned let alone how it should be taught, as for myself i was overwhelmed by how to get started .
when i first sat down at a steel my mind was reeling , first i had 10 strings with no idea how to even tune the contraption.
then there were these pedals and to make matters worse there were these knee levers hanging everywhere, i only had 3 picks ,10 strings ,3 pedals ,4 knee levers and a volume pedal....and I was supposed to learn to play this thing ???? my first thought was ...you gotta be kidding

so from a rank beginers view point , i beg to differ with that statement.

i have read your bio and my hat is most certainly off to you Mrs Liz

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400

Roger Pietz · Post by **Roger Pietz** » 2 Oct 2006 8:46 pm

I think in my case as a beginner is learning patience. I picked the guitar up in one month and was playing in a band in 6 months. I think if you have never played an instrument before perhaps the steel might be easier to learn No Bad Habits. Like you folks who learned from years of practice this day and age you get alot more distractions with all the new gadgets out there. Like my teacher told me today you have to really want to overcome theobstacles and stay with this instrument it's like no others I have played. The Theory throw it out the window for me right now the patience and practice is what us new beginners need to develope at least I am speaking for myself.So all the stuff out there will not help unless one has the inner drive to practice, practice practice. And No 2 teachers are alike.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 3 Oct 2006 12:44 am

Calvin, I suspect that your approach at the very beginning, or perhaps someone you spoke with had a very skewed approach.

You were never supposed to sit down at a foreign Instrument with 10 strings, 3 pedals and a bunch of knee levers and understand it from day one. Assuming you were appears to be the root problem here.

Think of it this way.
The 6 string Guitar has 6 strings, 21 or 22 frets,the Piano has 88 keys.Thats a lot of notes.

Nobody just sits down and says ok..I'm ready to play.

There is CONSENSUS on how to learn. Make no mistake. I don't feel it is wise to assume there is not.

The Steel has a few more obstacles but it is no different in the scheme of things.The obstacles are physical, not mental.

Every student of Music must learn the language of music first, even if only at a minimal level.

On the 6 string guitar each of us from day one started to learn the notes off of the E string and then the relative positions.

The Pedal Steel E9th is exactly the same, the 8th string ( E ) is the root string and should always be used as the ROOT/HOME position.Just like the E string on the 6 string and middle C on the Piano. There are benchmarks.

The biggest problem that I see with the E9th tuning on the Pedal Steel is that everyone wants to play Danny Boy on the first day. They buy a TAB package and low and behold they actually learn how to play Danny Boy, well sort of. The simple truth to this is that they have no clue what they are doing, they are just going thru the motions.

About 6 months ago a new player contacted me about one of the programs I offer, he wanted to know if he purchased it would it teach him how to play the Steel by the following week as he already had gigs lined up.

When I said no, he was very angry with me and told me I had no right offering Instruction materials. I agreed with him and said goodnight.

I suspect race Car drivers didn't learn how to drive in an IRL car on the BIG TRACK. I suspect that they learned in a 54 Chevy like I did..on a small dirt road somewhere..doing 10 miles an hour.

Any Music student that is under the impression that they can buy an Instrument, any Instrument, and pretty much learn it to play like the records over night is making a huge mistake.

Here's a quick and dirty litmus test for beginning students.

Say you are listening to a Merle Haggard Song. Sing Me Back Home is a good one.You don't even need an Instrument. As the song is playing and you hear the chord changes, can you identify what they are ?

Sing me back ....1 chord
Home .... 5 chord
Take Me.... 4 chord
Away..... 1 chord

IF you can hear and recognize these very basic rudiment changes, you are well past lesson 1.

If you can't, it's not the Instrument. Some basic ear training and minimal music theory would be appropriate.

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 03 October 2006 at 05:09 AM.]

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 3 Oct 2006 1:39 am

The BASICS of any instrument (including the steel guitar) can be learned relatively quickly and easily.

Mastery takes somewhere between a lifetime and eternity.

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 3 Oct 2006 1:50 am

Calvin, I have a masters degree, a Phd, and have taught college and school for 30 years. Guess what the most difficult and most challenging thing in my life has been?

It has not been writing a 150 page dissertation on Shakespeare and standing in front of 200 plus professors giving a public defense, and fielding many tricky questions.

The most difficult thing, the most challenging thin, and by far the most rewarding thing is playing the pedal steel guitar. Like Elizabeth said, 2 hours a day practice no matter what, and good instruction by Jeff Newman or Joe Wright helps keep you sane.