No Country Allowed !!

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 27 Sep 2006 6:41 am

Guys, I can't even believe that this discussion keeps surfacing. Go back and do a search on non country steel topics and you'll find the same arguments and the same divided camps.

Now if you want to have a real, thought-provoking discussion about steel in a non-country context, imagine Paris Hilton as a steel guitarist and all the cool, hip country and non-country things she could do with it.

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 27 Sep 2006 6:53 am

lol!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 27 Sep 2006 6:59 am

Don't give Shef any ideas! He's wicked with that Photoshop!

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 27 Sep 2006 7:07 am

Since I played music of several types before I started playing reso or steel, I've always tried to just play MUSIC. If one approaches the pedal steel as 'pick this string . . . mash these pedals' very little real music results. Anyone in any profession will tell you that the best in the business are those who push their own boundaries.

I believe there are two reasons why steel players don't (or REFUSE to) play anything but country:
* they don't like any other types of music or
* they CAN'T play anything other than country

When I first started playing steel I was a bit surprised that whenever 'Johnny B. Goode' or some other rock tune was called on the bandstand the steel player got a drink or just folded his hands on his guitar and sat out -- or, sometimes, switched to guitar. I always found this odd. Loving a challenge and feeling that the pedal steel is the ultimate slide guitar, I welcomed playing non-country tunes.

It got me a lot of gigs.

Like Mike P, I always try to choose tunes that aren't normally associated with steel guitar for my instrumental CDs.

Examples:
Steely Dan -- Rikki, Don't Lose That Number
Elvis Costello -- Alison
Beach Boys -- In My Room
Beatles -- You Won't See Me
and, last but not least
Frank Zappa & the Mothers of Invention - Lets Make the Water Turn Black

I love steak and potatoes but wouldn't want to eat them every meal.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 27 Sep 2006 12:07 pm

mike , i tryed but i just could not bear to listen to more than 10 sec. or so
please don't get me wrong i am sure your a fine player but to ME you might as well be playing tuba in a country band..it just won't work for me...sorry

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 27 Sep 2006 12:39 pm

Don't give Shef any ideas! He's wicked with that Photoshop!

Nowwwwwwww Jim! ( actually I use the Microsoft Paint program that comes standard with all Windows computers, I'm way to stupid to figure out anything as advanced as Photoshop)

Mike Phillips · Post by **Mike Phillips** » 27 Sep 2006 1:23 pm

jeez...

"mike , i tryed but i just could not bear to listen to more than 10 sec. or so please don't get me wrong i am sure your a fine player but to ME you might as well be playing tuba in a country band..it just won't work for me...sorry"

a) that's too bad. what mike (and larry) have posted in this thread are inspiring examples of what this expressive instrument, that we all love, can do.

b) posting your music for everyone to hear takes guts.

c) i'm sure you're not trying to be offensive, but when you say things like "... i just could not bear to listen to more than 10 sec. or so", etc... guess, what? you are!

d) spouting off like that without posting examples of your own playing is rude and, i'd say, cowardly.

oh, yeah, that's all IMHO, naturally.

mike

Pete Young · Post by **Pete Young** » 27 Sep 2006 1:30 pm

Larry I must say you do some very pretty stuff on those songs I am going to have to get back to practice

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 27 Sep 2006 1:48 pm

I'm just trying to figure out what's wrong with a tuba player in a country band.
damn! we'll have to fire our tuba player

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 27 Sep 2006 3:03 pm

Mike P and Larry nailed it exactly...

We tend to over critique things we can't do...

pedal steel guitar is a musical instrument[This message was edited by Tim Harr on 27 September 2006 at 04:04 PM.]

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 27 Sep 2006 4:24 pm

Maybe I misunderstood the question...are we talking about songs or playing styles?

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 27 Sep 2006 5:14 pm

...and keep this in mind...one man's country is another man's rock and roll...

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

Richard Gonzales · Post by **Richard Gonzales** » 27 Sep 2006 5:25 pm

NOW, for the real underlying reason I asked the question ( no more country music)! I wanted to understand why a steel guitar is not in every band like a piano.

The answer might be that the majority of the public are not country music fans and the majority of steel players like their country music.

Until the majority of steel players migrate to other genres of music , the public will always consider the steel guitar a country musical instrument.

Wouldn't it be great if every band had to have a STEEL GUITAR!

That is my opinion after reading the posts and thank you for participating!

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 27 Sep 2006 6:44 pm

Wouldn't it be great if every band had to have a STEEL GUITAR!

RICHARD GONZALES FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!

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Warning: I have a Telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 27 Sep 2006 7:49 pm

...I'd like to see a steel guitar in every country band...

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 27 Sep 2006 11:59 pm

It's very hard to disagree with Larry. It's all just music after all.

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 28 Sep 2006 4:37 am

That's been my point for a long time. As with any musical instrument, you can play one style or a bunch of different styles, and the only one who decides if that's "good" or "bad" is you.

It's fun and challenging to take things slightly "out of context" - I've played bebop stuff on guitar but with Pat Cloud on 5-string Banjo, mando on Yes tunes, dobro on free-form "jam band" stuff...it's all "music", and IMO people who lock themselves into only one style either have a fear of the unknown or are just very set in their ways. There are "country" die-hards who say that's all they'll listen to or play - until you mention an Emmons jazz tune, or Curly Chalker swing, and they listen to those things. So they only *think* "country" and probably appreciate far more than they would care to admit.

I'm not a country player, but I am listening to more and more of it because I appreciate good musicianship of any type on any instrument. Can I play any of it? Yes, but it's not what I really care to do most of the time.

Views like Calvin's "workbench" comment are the types of things that may very well turn a new player off to the instrument, which is unfortunate. I would think Steel Players would want to welcome new players of any style in order to promote the instrument - the more players, the more exposure; the more exposure, the more gigs become avaialable; the more gigs, the more instruments needed; the more instruments needed, the more engineering advances AND cost reductions through inceased production numbers.

Why folks want to keep Steel in a litttle corner of the music world - and then complain when that corner shrinks - is beyond me.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 28 Sep 2006 5:46 am

I fail to see the issue.
Without country music, the pedal steel might not have evolved at all.
You can take the steel out of country, but you can't take country out of pedal steel.

Witness the opening bars of 'Maria.' Mike gives two figures that do homage to the steel's roots. I can't imagine anyone not getting drawn into that tune to discover it's high quality music.

But I grew up with 'West Side Story' and 'The Firebird', as well as the Beach Boys and Zappa. Tex Ritter was something that played on the radio. Everywhere, in West Texas. You can't escape country music in places like that.
But I can't imagine growing up without exposure to many other kinds of fine music.

You have to listen, to get past the steel being used for classical, jazz, and some pop. Then you begin to hear that it is music, with a little different sound.

Kudos to all those who stray from the heard.
And my great admiration to those who do country so well.

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 28 Sep 2006 6:15 am

I am just curious how many of you would be playing steel guitar if there was no country or western swing to be played?

There's still plenty of guys playin Hawaiian steel and I'm sure it would have evolved into other musical styles from it's Hawaiian roots but it's no accident that pedal steel really took off with Country music. Those first sounds of Bud Isaacs in "Slowly" really lit a fire back then and inspired many musicians to take up steel guitar.[This message was edited by Andy Sandoval on 28 September 2006 at 07:18 AM.]

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 28 Sep 2006 6:43 am

You have to make some allowances for the elderly. Most of them simply don't have the same level of patience and tolerance like they did in their younger years - if they ever had any at all.

I'm embarrassed to admit that at 37, I feel that I've wasted the last 5 years trying to get PSG in such a fickle genre as Pop/Rock. Nowadays all I want to do is go back to the true roots: Hawaiian. And that style has its own challenges I hadn't considered like chimes and whatnot. I hope I'm prepared for the nuances in Country if I ever decide to take it on. Regardless of the genre, I think it takes true skill to "do the steel right".

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 28 Sep 2006 7:37 am

I like country music and listen to it most of the time on my Sirius; however, because I spent most of my musical career on pop, jazz and mood music, I tend to play my steel in those genres most of the time.

I played with a dance band for almost a year that played very little country but enjoyed every song we did regardless whether it was pop, Hawaiian, mood or western swing. All that was needed to make the steel fit in was to stay away from sneaking in country licks or sounds.

The steel can be a versatile instrument but you have to make the guitar fit the music, not the other way around.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 28 September 2006 at 08:37 AM.]

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 28 Sep 2006 7:39 am

Hey Charlie, Good points! Also.. without classical music the "fiddle" may have never evolved.

As for the Banj@, well let's not bring that up

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 28 Sep 2006 8:12 am

Calvin, I accept that you don't care for my stuff, but 10 seconds is not a fair test. It's like readin the first 2 words of a book and judging the entire book on those 2 words.

Go back and listen to Maria all the way through. If you still don't like it, fair enough, but at least give it a fair test. OK?

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Warning: I have a Telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 28 Sep 2006 10:02 am

Mike , i did go back just now and gave it another listen,
i would never intentionaly hurt your feelings, you must understand that i am a diehard counrty fan ( won't even listen to whats called country today) its just not my kinda music . i don't mean to knock your playing at all, in fact i'm sure you can play beautifully. so please don't take my comments the wrong way.

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400

Richard Gonzales · Post by **Richard Gonzales** » 28 Sep 2006 1:57 pm

I read that Hawaiian music is a good choice, But how many steel players make a living playing in a Hawaiian combo? Not many!

Mike, I like your style ! It is like listening to classical music that tells a story or abstract art which lets you do the interpreting.
Good Job Mike!