Vintage Steels

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 19 Aug 2006 9:45 pm

Bobbe,
Does this mean, next year my Sho-Bud crossover will be a vintage instrument? As that would make it 40 years old.
By the way, it is in pristine condition. It is/was my first pedal steel, bought for me by my dad in Louisville at Baldwin's premier windowfront music store in 69'. I love that ol' steel.
Thanks ol' friend,
TW[This message was edited by Tommy White on 19 August 2006 at 10:47 PM.]

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 19 Aug 2006 10:29 pm

Tommy, I had an old cross over "Bud" but she bit the dust, Now I have a Sho-Bud around 72" year model she don't give me no fuss. My old cross over used to make me cuss, but Pro 2 just give me a little muss. I will soon get a new set of strings you know what I means. They just old steel guitar strings.
Got to LOVE the old "BUDS"

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 Aug 2006 11:05 pm

Nothing made after 1967 is vintage. Yep, vintage is only to 1967.

RATS!!!! This is from 1968. I missed it by one year.

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Warning: I have a telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 20 Aug 2006 5:19 am

I remember the old Baldwin store Tommy!

Well this old Emmons isn't rebuilt. It's had a bunch of knee levers added and the body has been refinished but underneath it's got some near vintage smoke! What the heck, I've only got five years to go!

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 20 Aug 2006 6:06 am

"Nothing made after 1967 is vintage. Yep, vintage is only to 1967."

It sounds arbitrary, but the same thing exists in the "regular" guitar world, except 1968 is considered a "gray" year.

In the mid 90's it was rule-of-thumb that "30 years" was the age point for something to be called "vintage".

But a few years ago, the loosely-assembled band of collector/players that hang around the Fender, Les Paul, amp and other forums plus the guitar and amp newsgroups started looking at when major changes were made in guitars, amps, etc. CBS had bought Fender effective Jan 1 1965, but no changes happened then.

But in 1967 through early '68, several things changed:

Fender amp circuits changed drastically, and not for the better.

Marshall made major changes in production methods and amp design.

Gibson brought back the original Les Paul - albeit with wrong pickups, it was the first "reissue".

Fender changed several things regarding neck shape, pickups and other guitar manufacturing.

Gretsch took a huge downward turn in QC.

Those were the major points, and there's no one "month" - or even "year"....but 1967 is kind of the last consistent "good" year.

With acoustic guitars, "vintage" is considered to be 30 years by some, but 1969-earlier by most. That's the last year Brazilian Rosewood was commercially available in quantities, and an early '69 Brazilian rosewood Martin D-28 is worth far more than a late-69 East Indian rosewood one. So acoustic guitars are one area where the "1967" rule is only loosely applied.

None of this affects pedal steel guitars, but I believe (and I'm not an expert here) that 1968 was also a transition year for the Emmons Push-Pull. Like I said, I could be wrong...but the term "vintage" is a guitar "industry" term, not limited to any particular instrument, so the steels fall into the same bucket.

As I said, none of this is exact - but it's close enough that 1967 is generally accepted as the cutoff.

I hope that clarifies a bit what Bobbe said. It may not be from exactly the same point of reference, but the years are still the same.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 20 Aug 2006 6:27 am

I still play my 1966 Franklin.

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 20 Aug 2006 8:26 am

All used on a regular basis.

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 20 Aug 2006 11:06 am

Jay,
That is totally sick, and I mean that in the best possible way!

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 20 Aug 2006 11:52 am

Picked 'em up at some garage sales over the years.

Carl Williams · Post by **Carl Williams** » 20 Aug 2006 1:38 pm

After seeing Jay's Gold Mine, I'll mention my '76 LDG! Great collection Jay--

Carl
p.s. What street was the Garage sale on again...?

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 20 Aug 2006 5:22 pm

Jay, I'd like to go "garage saleing" with you sometime. I guess my two 1969 ZBs are no longer vintage, according to the newly posted standard, so I better start looking for another one.
In any event, Jay, you have a beautiful collection/assortment. They all sound so beautiful...at least from the picture.
Duncan

Dale Thomas · Post by **Dale Thomas** » 20 Aug 2006 8:23 pm

I still play my 75 Franklin #16 but I've always wondered about a ShoBud D-9 that I bought from Shot and Buddy in
about '59 or '60. It was made of zebrawood (the only one). Buddy was playing it with ET at the time. Who has that one?

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 20 Aug 2006 8:48 pm

Tommy White, Baldwin Crossover huh? Didn't realize you could lift that much weight! You are a strong guy!
Yes , It will be a "Vintage" horn very soon.
I played The infamous "Sho-Bud Baldwin Crossover in my first Nashville days, Connie Smith, Ray Price (the first tour) Stonewall, Ferlin and so on, but it weighed 96 pounds in the case with the volume pedal, it sounded fine, however, the descision to switch to the P-P Emmons in 1969 was a good one for me though.
I never had any problems with the Sho-Bud on tour or in sessions (very few at that time) but the weight and size in the case were killers. Ray Price loved the tone but said nothing when I changed to the Emmons P-P, except for saying, "that guitar was designed on MY bus 10 years ago". I just laughed and told Ray that "he should watch his employees more closley"!

Your friend, big time!
Bobbe

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 21 Aug 2006 6:22 am

67-68 cut-tail. ser.#1263...nice

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 21 Aug 2006 6:33 am

John,
Believe it or not, the Rosewood shown in the front of my pic is #1264!
After I got it (in '76) I called Emmons and was told it was originally sent to Weldon Myrick in June '69.
He was acting as a dealer back then. The original owner was in the service, and had it overseas.
I bought it from the second owner (for $600), but don't tell anyone.
[This message was edited by Jay Ganz on 21 August 2006 at 07:35 AM.]

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 21 Aug 2006 7:24 am

Thanks Jay, what a coincidence. Does yours have the wide pedal spacing and wood stop bar too? Red case? Ron Lashly Sr. dated the steel as a 67-68 but as you know the build/sale dates and serial #'s are not always exact. Regardless, It's a great guitar,plays like a dream, stays in solid tune, sounds like a cannon, and I love it. Interestingly, I find that my Hybrid Zum compares very (incredibly) favorably, and has become my main axe, but it's great to be able to go back to Planet Emmonzonia. What a world.[This message was edited by john widgren on 21 August 2006 at 08:29 AM.]

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 21 Aug 2006 11:47 am

Thanks to Jay and Chris Lucker for helping me correctly identify as a late 68 model. Great guitar none the less, but accuracy matters. Thanks guys. And so it goes...

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 21 Aug 2006 2:54 pm

When it comes down to it,, if I could only have one guitar to play the rest of my life, it would have to be an old P-P Emmons, Tone, dependability, parts availability, value, playability, make this my number one choice, but I hate to give up my new Performance steel guitar, and old Bigsbys. Please--------------- let me own a few hundred steel guitars!!!!!!!!!!!! I love several newer guitars also.

Yes I have several personal great old P-P guitars, none are for sale but my store has a few, I need to go buy them for me, from me,,,,,,,,,, I guess, (but I can't afford it!)[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 21 August 2006 at 03:56 PM.][This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 21 August 2006 at 03:58 PM.]

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 22 Aug 2006 1:20 am

Two 1970 P/P Emmons' 8x4 and 9x5 (Originally but 4x3 now)
1964 Fender 1000 (10 Pedals)
1964 Fender 400 (9 Pedals)
1954 Gibson Multiharp 3 neck 6 pedals
1973 Fender PS-210

All guitars are used on a regular basis..

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Kyle Everson · Post by **Kyle Everson** » 22 Aug 2006 7:57 am

I play a '73 Pro-II. It may not be old enough to be classified as vintage, but an unrestored rack and barrel system definitely reminds you of its age! BTW it's 10 yrs older than me.

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Kyle Everson
Sho-Bud Pro-II
Fender Twin Reverb
Goodrich 120

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 23 Aug 2006 2:06 pm

Jay put me in your will ? Really Nice Collection.Randy.

Shorty Smith · Post by **Shorty Smith** » 23 Aug 2006 4:22 pm

Playing a 1973 Emmons twin ten I bought in 73 every Friday and Saturday night. the only change is new pickups, everything else is original and works today as good as it did in 73, great steel guitar,