This made me mad, then sad

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 17 Dec 2005 5:18 am

Not enough money involved to take care of hiring a lawyer. Might try something along the lines of mail fraud since money was sent and nothing was returned for that money. I don't know because I'm NOT a lawyer. Surely some federal crime has been committed though. Best remedy for all involved is for the man who took money for a guitar needs to stand up and be a man of his word and deliver that guitar no matter what. Thats what I would do if it were me and thats also exactly what I would expect from a manufacturer. A man who has any concern whatsoever about his name, reputation, and business would not need to be begged to do a good job at what makes his living.

Maybe this is a harsh view but a good reputation and being a man of my word has served me well in business for the last 25 years.

Rick

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Dec 2005 5:37 am

Not enough money involved to take care of hiring a lawyer.

Agreed. It's not THAT much money involved, but a heck of a lot of principles... I will look into possibilities of reporting him to wherever it is you report something like this though, including in his local area, plus the PayPal/credit card option.

My mail has not bounced back to me yet, as Randy's did, so I assume he's received it.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 17 Dec 2005 5:48 am

Not harsh at all Rick, just right.
And it's true, there's not enough money involved to hire a lawyer. $400 wouldn't cover the retainer.
You'd think <blink>Eric Brown</blink> would value his reputation more than the $390 he took. But he doesn't. If you read the reviews on Harmony Central about him, it becomes clear that his reputation is already worthless.
The best course is to let pickers everywhere know the truth about this guy so he won't be able to shaft anyone else.
And stay on his butt!

edited to say:
I sent him another email. This is what it said -

Eric,
Why don't you just give Steinar his money back? You have no right to keep it.
You took his money and he received nothing for it. That's your responsibility.
Do the right thing - give him his money back. Then this could all fade away.

Sincerely,
Rick Alexander

[This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 17 December 2005 at 06:05 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 17 Dec 2005 6:52 am

Since the money was not sent by US mail, there's no mail fraud.

Not enough money to hire a lawyer. I wonder if a local law student might want some field practice though. It would have to go through small claims court. Winning a judgement is not the problem....collecting is.

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 17 Dec 2005 7:02 am

I just sent out a mass email to every musician I know who hasn't posted on this thread.

In the subject line it says:"This Guy Is Bad News"
All it says is:
His name is Eric Brown. He lives in Maine. He's a "guitar builder" who likes to take musicians' hard earned money, promise them a custom guitar - and then just forget about them.
Then there's a link to this thread.

Believe me, I know A LOT of musicians!

RA

Terry VunCannon · Post by **Terry VunCannon** » 17 Dec 2005 7:19 am

OK...I think I have a plan...I keep some info on a collection agency called Allen, Lewis & Associates that are out of Florida. They deal with musical areas of collection. Check out the website, www.allenlewis.com . I talked to them when I filed the info on them about 5 years ago, thinking I would have a game plan in case someone stiffed my agency or band. At the time, if they took on you case, they would add their cost to the amount in question, so the cheated party would get the full amount due. So, to collect $390 may cost $500/$600 or more. It's what they do. 800-773-5322. This could also help other musicians. I don't know why I did not think of this sooner.

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'49 & '51 National Dynamics, Harmos Model One, Lazy River Weissenborn, Mesa Boogie DC-3, SRV Strat.
http://community.webshots.com/user/keefriff

[This message was edited by Terry VunCannon on 17 December 2005 at 07:21 AM.]

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 17 Dec 2005 8:33 am

Another approach -- consumer reporters at TV stations and newspapers love to get outraged. The tough part is that this is a case of a hard-working artist vs. a one-man shop, so there's no big corporation to kick around. But this is also a case of (alleged) fraud and greed, and the media thrives on that.

Best of luck, Steinar -- your patience is admirable.

Peter

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 17 Dec 2005 8:41 am

Interesting sidebar: I just Googled both "Eric Brown guitar builder" and "Eric Brown guitar maker." In both searches this forum's thread was either the first or second link to this guy.

Hey, the old saying goes "you can't BUY advertising like this!" (As if anyone would WANT to buy advertising like this!)

GOOD WORK, ERIC!! The guitar orders should be pouring in right about now.

One thing about the Internet is that while it opens up avenues for private parties to screw other private parties, it can also provide instant notice to a whole lot of potential customers about the dubious actions of people in business.

I also don't think a local media company would touch the story right now... it's basically a "he-said, he said" thing and an attorney would probably say there's a whole lot of potential liability... read "lawsuit"... attached to airing a story like that just from Steinar's point of view. Just MHO.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 17 December 2005 at 08:46 AM.]

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 17 Dec 2005 8:45 am

Herb. I did the google search also--this guy is toast.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Dec 2005 8:46 am

Yeah Peter.......
I didn't start this thread to destroy his business or his life, as I wrote in my original post I had tried my best to forget about the whole deal and written off the money. But when I realized he had abused my personal and professional intergrity the way he had in that interview, I just had to do something.

If he just hadn't been such a blockhead and simply come clean and said "Sorry Steinar, I screwed up, I'll make it good to you" - and actually followed up - then there would have been no hard feelings at all.

But he doesn't, and the clock is ticking...

One thing about the Internet is that while it opens up avenues for private parties to screw other private parties, it can also provide instant notice to a whole lot of potential customers about the dubious actions of people in business.

So true Herb! The power of the Internet goes both ways....

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 17 December 2005 at 08:50 AM.]

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 17 Dec 2005 9:07 am

I also don't think a local media company would touch the story right now...

You're probably right about that Herb, but don't forget - the editor of the newspaper in his home town knows all about this now. I know because I told her the whole story when I was speaking with her about printing that retraction on the phone yesterday. She knows him personally. It's a small town . .

I didn't start this thread to destroy his business or his life

Steinar, he did it to himself. All you did was tell the truth where it needed to be told.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Dec 2005 9:24 am

Re: Google. Funny, I don't get any hits at all when I search for "Eric Brown guitar builder" (or ".... maker"), and when I search without the ".." I get a whole lot of hits but only one involving him,- a link to the "guitarsite.com" where someone (Rick?) posted a link to this thread......

Perhaps the story just need longer time to reach Norway.....

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 17 Dec 2005 9:28 am

I did those 2 searches and this thread is #1 and #2 respectively. Try going to http://google.com and doing the search from there. He's famous.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Dec 2005 9:31 am

Nope, still nothing.. Strange...
Well, as long as the rest of the world can find it, that's good. I'm already aware of this.....

Steinar[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 17 December 2005 at 09:35 AM.]

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 17 Dec 2005 9:40 am

Steiner,

I received an email from a Fo'Bro alerting me to this message chain & issue.

I regret that, due to a way-over-flowing plate around the home-front, I am not able to join in the discussions like I wish I could (and why I've been absent for awhile); But provided below is a link to a previous SGF discussion where I explained the FBI / IFCC (Internet Fraud Complaint Center) Task Force and their complaint-taking website, ...and them not taking kindly at all to internet fraud, regardless of how small the dollar amount might be (and $390 ain't chump-change). If a fraudulent transaction is done using the internet, even in part ...such as via emails, or in conjunction with a website advertisement / promotion / etc, or paying through an internet webiste such as Pay Pal... ...then it is Internet Fraud. Non-receipt of goods paid for, is #1 in internet transaction fraud. Internet Fraud and the FBI / IFCC is the internet version of Mail Fraud and the USPS Postal Inspector.

Here's the link to the SGF discussion. Scroll down to my posting [13 April 2005 08:30 PM] explaining the FBI / IFCC Task Force; ...which includes a link to a copy of one of the several email letters I received from a District Attorney Detective responding to an FBI / IFCC complaint I filed which plugged him in as the policing / enforcer: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/006857.html

Of course I can't promise that an FBI / IFCC complaint would get results similar to the great results I got, ...but I think there's a darn good chance it would.

The FBI / IFCC website complaint process takes about 20 minutes to complete ...IF you have your brief description details (series of events in numbered chronological list form) already typed out in a text file that you can copy / paste into the complaint form, and any available documents prepared in digital files to upload as attachments when prompted. When the form is completed you will be given a case number; WRITE IT DOWN so you can reference it in any follow-up. You can also do a dry-run to check out how it's done and what you will need; Just abort before the final *submit* prompt. I also suggest finding Mr. E. Brown's County District Attorney's IFCC Task Force Dept (easy to find his local D.A. on the internet) and alert them that an FBI / IFCC complaint (give them the case number) has been filed and please expect it, and please inform you when it's received so you can check progress with them OR follow up with the FBI / IFCC if it isn't received by the D.A. within about 2 weeks. Being polite and thorough just might inspire the D.A. detectives to contact Mr. Brown even before the FBI / IFCC complaint is received. That's what occurred in my case; And the offender's attitude on the phone took a very different, very concerned and very apologietic turn when they did.

Aloha,
Mele Kalikimaka ... Haoli Makahiki Hou,
Denny T~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 17 December 2005 at 09:52 AM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Dec 2005 9:58 am

Thanks Denny,- I've sent an email your way..

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Mark Vinbury · Post by **Mark Vinbury** » 17 Dec 2005 10:01 am

My guess is this guy doesn't care that much about what is going on here.
At $390 for what appears to be a decent guitar he isn't making a lot of money on lap steels.
Looks like he's heavily invested in the Tele market though.That's where I'd go to hit him.
He'll no doubt portray us as a bunch of medling oddballs.
When worse comes to worse these weasels just grab another hat,change the name of the business or slide into some other type of woodworking.
A few days back I eMailed him suggesting he fall on the sword,work a few extra nites, get Steinar his guitar and capitalize on Steinar's endorsement of the tone of the instrument.
A bit late for that now.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Dec 2005 10:09 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> get Steinar his guitar and capitalize on Steinar's endorsement of the tone of the instrument.
A bit late for that now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, that's the big and (for Eric) tragic irony in all this. Not that I'm a very famous hotshot player or anything, but if I'd had the Lapcaster (I sold my original one believeing it was just a matter of weeks before I received the new, improved model), I am sure I would have used it on a couple of tracks on the CD I'm mixing these days.
Then he could have used those tracks to promote his guitar (as Bill Asher already does), instead of inventing bogus stories in interviews. What a... a... (at this point I have to remind myself that I've promised myself not to resort to namecalling...)

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 17 Dec 2005 10:19 am

these weasels just grab another hat

Hey, let's not give hats a bad name....what'ya think keeps me in steel guitars?

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Dec 2005 10:25 am

Howard, can you make one of these and ship it to Maine?

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 17 Dec 2005 10:26 am

Good one Steinar!

Mark Vinbury · Post by **Mark Vinbury** » 17 Dec 2005 10:26 am

Got any Weasel skin hats we could send him.
Maybe somthing with a Turkey feather in it. [This message was edited by Mark Vinbury on 17 December 2005 at 10:30 AM.]

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 17 Dec 2005 10:28 am

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 17 Dec 2005 10:28 am

Denny -

Howard, we won't blame hats. Hats often get blamed for things unfairly, as in: "Hats Cause Baldness!"
It's actually the other way around.

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 17 Dec 2005 10:35 am

[This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 17 December 2005 at 04:14 PM.]