This made me mad, then sad

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 14 Dec 2005 2:00 pm

my personal integrity is extremely important to me

I lost that when I was a teenager so I'd take the cash instead......anyhow. I'll drop him a line too.[This message was edited by HowardR on 14 December 2005 at 02:02 PM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 14 Dec 2005 2:01 pm

He has a different side though I can tell you that.

I'm sure he has. I hope you get his permission to post it so I can see what he writes. I have offered to post his reply to me, to give him a chance to present his view, but haven't heard back yet.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 14 December 2005 at 02:04 PM.]

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 14 Dec 2005 3:14 pm

Some guys really know how to spend their birthday -- eh, Steinar?

Have a happy 46th -- forget about this stuff for a while and enjoy the beer, the blondes and the music!

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 14 Dec 2005 4:08 pm

Ummmmmmm, that would be 47, but thanks anyway!

No beer or blondes for me tonight, but hopefully lots of sleep.... (and there's still hope, it's tomorrow night that's the 'official' B-day, I'm only one hour into it so far......)

See you all tomorrow,- I'm overwhelmed by the responses I've received and I know a lot more about how to handle this now than I did last night. Thanks!

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 14 Dec 2005 4:29 pm

Steinar, please send me an email. I have some info for you. It's rical@bellsouth.net [This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 14 December 2005 at 05:18 PM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 14 Dec 2005 4:29 pm

enjoy the beer, the blondes and the music!

and if you need to put another man on the job, I work cheap!

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 14 Dec 2005 6:00 pm

Okay here is the email I sent to Eric Brown followed by his response, followed by my answer to his response:

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My email:
Hi Eric,
You are getting some very effective publicity on Steel Guitar Forum. As you may know, this forum is populated by just about every Steel Guitar player in the world - membership over 5,000. Here's the link: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/008263.html

They say any publicity is good publicity.

sincerely,
Rick Alexander http://rickalexander.com/BigSteel

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Eric Brown's response:

EbbTone09@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Rick,
> I have received some emails from this, both good and bad. I feel this is unjust without contacting first for more info. I consider Steinar a friend also. The article in question got a retraction from Joyce Grondin. Stating that only Two lapsteels were purchased buy Steinar and no other info could be confirmed. They said they got the info from Steinar's website. As far as $400.00 that was not the amount and I have all slips confirming that it was sent. I even sent all copies to him. I did not here from him and it has been almost two years. I built two the same as Steinar's design we worked out. The other went to Steinar's friend in California named David Seiglar, he got his fine.
> I am willing to follow up with this matter to confirm my statement.
> Eric Brown

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and my answer:

Hi Eric,
I don't want to be unfair to anyone. Steinar is my friend and I have no reason to doubt what he says - and that's the same thing all the other guys feel. There are several discrepencies between what he says and what you say. But if he sent you money for a guitar and then did not receive it that's your responsibility. The buyer has no way to monitor the shipment, the seller does. You didn't hear from him because he just figured he's been screwed and there wasn't anything he could do about it. He's a sensitive artist, not an aggressive consumer advocate. You and he need to resolve this quickly.
We are willing to post your side on the forum thread along with any further comments you have. We're ornery and mean - but in the final analysis, we're fair.

Rick Alexander http://rickalexander.com

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 14 Dec 2005 6:32 pm

Thanks for posting this Rick, as it will give me a chance to deal with the arguments that I believe other also have received from Eric.

Here we go:

I feel this is unjust without contacting first for more info.

Fair enough. I realize that would have been the "proper procedure", and my only excuse is that I simply snapped when I read the article, it was, as you say - "the final straw that broke the camel's back".

The article in question got a retraction from Joyce Grondin.

Well, if so then I find it strange that it still says the same. I have emptied the memory cache and cookies, but still I see no changes in the article, even after entering the site using three different browsers. If anybody can confirm that the stuff I quoted has been changed, please post and let me know.

Stating that only Two lapsteels were purchased buy Steinar and no other info could be confirmed. They said they got the info from Steinar's website.

Well, this is completely beside the point, it doesn't matter if I ordered 2, 10 or 20 - I am not denying that I liked his guitar well enough to order one more and even recommend it to a good friend - my complaint is about what it says about the recording I am supposed to have used it on.

The way I see it, my name has been used to 'connect' his guitars to some "hot shots" - "Steel guitarist 'so-and-so' used it to record with these world famous artists" - and doing this he has falsely used my name to mislead the public.
That is a very serious matter to me.

As far as $400.00 that was not the amount and I have all slips confirming that it was sent.

Now that's funny. On December 17th, 2003, I transferred $390 to Eric Brown - $350 for the guitar and $40 for shipping - and I have the PayPal receipt to prove it. So give or take $10.......

I even sent all copies to him.

Not correct. Unless he sent them by snailmail and the evil Postal Squirrel ate them....

I did not here from him and it has been almost two years.

Again - not correct. Last winter/spring (I don't recall the exact date) I emailed Eric and asked what was going on, saying that I had more or less given up on it, and I got a reply where he claimed to have shipped it around Christmas time, 2004 (one year after I transfered the money). He also said that he would look into it, was eager to sort it out, and would get back to me later. So again I waited... and waited.. and then I gave up and he never heard from me again.

I built two the same as Steinar's design we worked out.

Correct, and this is actually a quite interesting point. Here I helped him refine the design, based on the model I bought on eBay - we even thought about giving it a name that somehow refered to me - and I never get the instrument while I have seen others offered on eBay. Jolly good job, I dare say. Any wonder I snapped?

Now I desperately need some sleep - it's 3:30 in the morning over here - so I won't be 'available for comments' for a while.
I'll just add that I have requested copies of Eric's shipping document(s), and told him I am more than willing to find a reasonable way out of this that we both can live with. But I need concrete proof, no more yadda yadda.
I also want the paragraph mentioning me in that article removed or changed. One way or another.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Pat Kelly · Post by **Pat Kelly** » 14 Dec 2005 6:35 pm

Just in case it helps I have e-mailed the following:

I send this in case you have any doubts about the influence and
reach of the “Steel guitar Forum.” My experience is that reputable
traders would have long since offered a refund or replacement for
the sake of goodwill, regardless of right or wrong.

Patrick Kelly
Sydney, Australia
[This message was edited by Pat Kelly on 14 December 2005 at 06:35 PM.]

Loni Specter · Post by **Loni Specter** » 14 Dec 2005 10:39 pm

Hi Steinar,
I remember you telling me about the overdue steel a long time ago. I remember saying that the guy was probably just running late and it would show up. I'm so sorry to have stuck up for a fellow builder, just assuming all builders are honest. As far as I'm concerned the man is guilty until proven inocent. Let's see what results come from this re-examination of the deal.
I hope it all works out.
Your friend, Loni

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 15 Dec 2005 5:38 am

What I don't understand is this, and it's so simple.

If Eric made the shipment (of which he states he has the shipping receipts) and was notified that it never arrived, why didn't he track it down or initiate an inquiry?

That's standard procedure, which brings us back to the question of "was it ever shipped".

Something's rotten somewhere.

John Bushouse · Post by **John Bushouse** » 15 Dec 2005 6:43 am

What a crappy way to spend your birthday, Steinar!

Of course, on the positive side, he evidently thinks enough of your artistic abilities to use you as a reference (even if it's 100% wrong). In 10 or 15 years, people will throw on that CD and exclaim, "listen to that kick a** Norwegian! Did you know he also did the solo on 'Running on Empty' as well as the bottleneck part on 'Werewolves of London'?"

Just doing my part...

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 15 Dec 2005 7:44 am

If Eric made the shipment (of which he states he has the shipping receipts) and was notified that it never arrived, why didn't he track it down or initiate an inquiry?

This is what he has to say about that:

I sent copies to the USPS in Portland to find or confirm it's location. I still am not sure what more I could have done or what you would like for me to do. Sorry for any problems this caused.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 15 Dec 2005 8:04 am

Howard, you just summed it up nicely. If Eric sent it and he has the receipts and it didn't arrive - it must have had a tracking # - then why didn't he track it down?
If it didn't have a tracking number, that means Eric was negligent and he is responsible.
Either way, he should make good on it and either refund Steinar's money or send him a new guitar post haste.
His reputation is on the line and the ball is in his court.

<marquee>HAPPY BIRTHDAY STEINAR !</marquee>[This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 15 December 2005 at 08:08 AM.]

Ron Bednar · Post by **Ron Bednar** » 15 Dec 2005 8:05 am

I sent copies to the USPS in Portland to find or confirm it's location. I still am not sure what more I could have done or what you would like for me to do. Sorry for any problems this caused.

Well, for one thing, wasn't it insured? If it didn't arrive an insurance claim should have been filed and Steinar would have gotten his money back...at the very least Steinar should not have been left holding an empty bag...some follow up should have happened. Which, like Howard said, brings us back to page one...was the guitar ever sent at all? Doesn't sound like it. So what can happen now...seems too late to file a complaint with the local Better Business Bureau or some other agency? [This message was edited by Ron Bednar on 15 December 2005 at 08:06 AM.]

Terry VunCannon · Post by **Terry VunCannon** » 15 Dec 2005 8:15 am

Well the gloves are off here at VunCannon Music & Entertainment(The small booking agency that I run), I have been in touch with the folks at Jackson Browne's management agency (Donald Miller & Cree Clover's team) and they are very interested in this story. Maybe a call from a big city manangement lawyer will help Steinar!!!

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'49 & '51 National Dynamics, Harmos Model One, Lazy River Weissenborn, Mesa Boogie DC-3, SRV Strat.
http://community.webshots.com/user/keefriff

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 15 Dec 2005 8:22 am

As I recall it, Erics friend who had borrowed the guitar for the tour was crazy about it (and it's a great rock'n'roll steel, with a tone that can cut through the Norwegian mountains, I'll give him that) and had begged him to keep it.

So here's my theory: Since this was a friend of Eric's, he gave in and let him keep it, probably thinking that he could get another one ready pretty soon and ship that one to me. Now, for whatever reasons, this plan didn't work out - he could have been bogged down in other work, fammily issues, whatever - and somehow my guitar simply slipped away. Then, when I got back to him and asked for it (for the umpteenth time) he said it was shipped just to try and get off the hook.
Well, that's my theory anyway, and my gut feeling agrees......

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 15 Dec 2005 8:25 am

Terry -

Keep me posted!! I can still receive your emails even though you don't get mine (for whatever freakish reason)....

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 15 Dec 2005 8:27 am

I sent copies to the USPS in Portland to find or confirm it's location

If the shipment was insured or registered, there would have been a form to fill out and submit with the tracking information. There would have to be some kind of resolve and documented communication between the USPS and the shipper.

If you just send it parcel post, there's no real way to track it. You still have to fill out a form for a lost package, but chances of them locating it are nil. It sounds like this is what happened from his statement "What more could I have done?"

So, he sent a receipt to the USPS, never heard back, and that's it? Game over?

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 15 Dec 2005 8:27 am

file a complaint with the local Better Business Bureau or some other agency?

Filing a complaint with the local BBB is all well and good, but I doubt if much of his business is local. This thread will ultimately have more impact than anything else would, because it is being read by thousands of Steel Guitar Players and other interested parties all over the world who are waiting to see how it plays out.

If Steinar doesn't get his money back or the new guitar he was promised - everyone will know. And no one will forget.

Maybe a call from a big city manangement lawyer will help Steinar!!!

Nice going Terry! This is the kind of thing that will have a significant effect.

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 15 Dec 2005 8:59 am

my heart is warmed by all the support being given to Steinar.

terry, thanks for your help. that was really nice.

hang in there Steinar.
Im looking around my house ; perhaps you will be the next person I send a free guitar.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 15 Dec 2005 9:05 am

Randy,- if your heart is warmed, then imagine how mine feels! I am truly touched and deeply moved by all the support - this is the best freakin' birthday present I could ever get!!

I hope you're only joking about that guitar - I am happy with my three 6-strings (Asher, Lap King, mongrel "LapStrat" with Loni's "Redneck") and I'm really getting into the 8 strings of my new GeorgeBoards. So please don't even think of doing anything like that (well, if you have a vintage D8 Stringmaster...

) - it's not so much the guitar or the money, it's the principle.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 15 Dec 2005 9:44 am

it's the principle.

plus interest......

Mark Vinbury · Post by **Mark Vinbury** » 15 Dec 2005 10:22 am

Steinar-- This guy owes you a guitar or a refund.
If he sent it at all it seems obvious and most likely he just fired it off from the local Post Office- no tracking ,no insurance.Pocketed the extra money and crossed his fingers.
The extra cost for overseas tracking and insurance has tempted me to skip it more than once.
In my experience shipping guitars,USPS has been very good about getting shipments right to a customers door (Australia, Italy, Norway etc.) but if somthing is missing and no precautions were taken up front they can't find it.
In addition, he most likely declared what was in the package on a customs label.If an unscrupulous person sees that plus -no insurance and no tracking......
Eric owes you a guitar.He needs to quit the weasel routine and get busy on it.
This type of controversy hurts all small guitar builders.

[This message was edited by Mark Vinbury on 15 December 2005 at 10:55 AM.]

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 15 Dec 2005 10:35 am

happy birthday indeed. !!!!

and yes , I was joking.

however, I still have a mind to send you the Albert Lee CD I mentioned so very long ago.
PM your address per favore.