Pitch A Pitch

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 14 Jul 2006 8:40 am

I'm wondering if others have tried playing steel guitar with a blindfold. The ability to return to a preselected position, after playing through a favorite melody, is a good test for pitch memory.
(Closing both eyes as an alternative is allowed.) Try to choose sharps or flats for the melody. ( No lifting the bar)

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 14 Jul 2006 9:36 am

I've never played with a blindfold, but I have more than once had to contend with blacked-out stage lights and could not see my fretboard. It was a challenge!

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Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 14 Jul 2006 9:42 am

Yep. Paper over the frets is a good one too.

Imagine it would even be harder without a full band to establish your "Tone Center™". Or a flat singing vocalist..

EJL

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 14 Jul 2006 9:54 am

Eric, Some of the "Bands?" I've had the misfortune to have to work with all seem to be playing on the same frets (guitar, Bass), but I don't have a clue what they did with the pitch!!!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 14 Jul 2006 10:01 am

The frets on my Williams are highy reflective. Playing outdoors at night, sometimes they reflect the black sky and disappear. I might as well have my eyes closed!

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 14 Jul 2006 10:07 am

Bill, I think muscle memory plays a more important role in this context than pitch memory...though both are very necessary. IMHO

James Shelton · Post by **James Shelton** » 14 Jul 2006 10:50 am

I used to practice with my eyes cloesed all the time. Now on the gig I almost never look at my frets. I think it does a great deal of good to take your eyes "out of loop" so to speak. I also think it helps with more than just pitch. If you don't have the eyes fixed on the guitar, you can see what all the other people in the band are up to. Frets are realy just a guide line.Fiddle players never look at the finger board, why should we?

James

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 14 Jul 2006 11:41 am

Well said, James.

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 14 Jul 2006 12:01 pm

Does "blind drunk " count? I've seen a few pickers perform that feat

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Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
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JW Day · Post by **JW Day** » 14 Jul 2006 12:12 pm

I never played with the lighs out,But we were playing the warm up for one of Willie Nelsons shows at Roberts Munipal Stat. in the late 70's in Evansville,ind. They had turned all of the lights out and lit their lighters. All of A sudden they announced our band and aimed their spots on the steel and turned on about 5 million watts.Try that one time, very much A challange

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 14 Jul 2006 12:45 pm

I only sound like I'm playin blind folded.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 14 Jul 2006 3:04 pm

I once knew a demon guitarist who was exceptionally pitch conscious. He told me that the hum of a fluorescent light was a Bb pitch. Fascinated by diesel horn pitches, he prompted me to play the two notes in unison, which are 1/2 tone apart.
He was a wiz on chords, and proper lead notes. He was a big fan of Alvino Rey.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 15 Jul 2006 8:11 am

When I made up my poor man's version of the *Hankey Vertical Fretboard*, I also cut out a piece of posterboard to cover the regular fretboard. I still pull it out now and then, but it does seem as though having the frets as a clue to get you in the right neighborhood of the correct pitch is a help too. I like to do long runs up and down a single string, 8 or 10 notes or so, and I'll take all the help I can get to keep the in-between notes on pitch.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 15 Jul 2006 8:53 am

David M.,

I'm convinced that playing ease is measurably enhanced by the HVF. The frets are clearly visible at the "nose" of the "bar". It's a welcome change, that offers more enjoyment and developmental playing. The permanence of the HVF on my steel, is well established. Attractive position markers and color schemes warrant further experimentation.
I appreciate your interesting views.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 15 Jul 2006 2:13 pm

For those who may have missed Bill's post from yesteryear, click here

Lee, from South Texas

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 19 Jul 2006 8:17 am

The nose of the bar for playing single note improvisations was "de rigueur" when I was learning back in the 1940's.

I think that has been lost in recent years because some of the well-known instructors have advised their students to never raise their bar from the strings.

...however, whatever works, works, and I have no issues with anything that helps new steelers in learning the trade.

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Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 19 Jul 2006 9:44 am

Nope, better to see how well you do at playin' without lookin' when some pretty young thing comes up and asks you "what is that thing?" right in the middle of a steel break. There's the test....

Bruce Blackburn · Post by **Bruce Blackburn** » 21 Jul 2006 2:44 am

I never had that happen. Humm....I must need a new guitar.

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David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 21 Jul 2006 3:31 am

Maurice Anderson strongly advocates using the fretboard as a visualization tool. It's not just a tool for hitting the pitches (according to him), it's about using it as a framework or foundation for anticipating where you're going. http://www.msapedalsteels.com/html/achieving_success.html
His explanation sort of blows through my head, but he seems to be talking about anticipation and playing with intent, using the fretboard as a mnenomic aid for the projection of pitches.

Obviously there is a visual element to learning and memory for most people, otherwise tablature wouldn't work at all. There have been enough blind guitarists and pianists playing at a very high level that it seems as though there are different ways to get to the same results, but I don't think that even they would claim that blindness is an advantage in playing music?

[This message was edited by David Mason on 21 July 2006 at 04:38 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Jul 2006 5:43 am

David M.,

Thank you for submitting Maurice Anderson's extensive and explicative article. It's very impressive, to say the least. Returning to the visual aspect of playing the steel guitar, one question remains unanswered. Could a musician without vision apply correct intonation, if requested? The ability to place the bar over a specific fret by request, is doubtful. In other words, eyes and ears link a musician to proficiency. Hence, the proposed "Pitch A Pitch" as a determinate to a player's perfected skills.

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 21 Jul 2006 7:16 am

Im curious. Are there any blind musicians that have mastered a fretless instrument?

Terry

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 21 Jul 2006 8:15 am

Terry,

Without a touch or feel cue, the steel guitar presents a difficult challenge to closed eyes. There are many options that could prove to be interesting to musicians without vision. An outstanding option would be to load a steel guitar with the proper knee levers. It is then possible to play through melody lines with a minimum of bar movement. Adding bright harmonics would enhance the overall intonation.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 21 Jul 2006 8:27 am

I have known blind violinists, upright bassists, and steel guitarists. You'd never know they were blind from their intonation.

I've also seen Buddy Emmons play without a fretboard on his E9 neck at Scotty's Convention.

I believe strongly in developing the hand/ear connection for fretless instruments. Practicing with the fretboard covered is a very valuable exercise. Sight can fool you. Parallax, stage lighting, and other factors can deceive you.

The ear is much better equipped to discern pitch than is the eye. A good musician will correct bar position within microseconds. IMHO, musicians whose ears can't do the job need to train the ear. Otherwise, fretted instruments may be a better fit for those who can't train the ear to find the correct bar position for a given pitch.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
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Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 22 Jul 2006 5:49 am

The ultimate blindfold test, while playing C6,single string jazzy. BF[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 22 July 2006 at 07:02 AM.]

[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 22 July 2006 at 07:17 AM.][This message was edited by Bill Ford on 22 July 2006 at 07:18 AM.]

John Coffman · Post by **John Coffman** » 22 Jul 2006 7:36 am

Good Thread. I know there are many more skilled players with years of experiences. As I am still a beginner and work on the chord progression I do close my eyes and try to hit the proper pitch and chord repeatedly. I have found out it has helped me learn faster and helped me focus on the licks at hand. M2CW. Thanks guys great input

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