how to play pedal B and R lever at same time

Ariel Lobos · From: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Hello Steelers:
I'm studing winnie winston's book,the back up in song "she thinks I still care",there's a nice voice conduction in measures 31 to 32(B7 to E chord)It plays B pedal and R lever( the one raise E to F) at the same time,then move to A pedal and R lever at same time too.I can't imagine how to play it correctly( I mean foot rotation ),could somebody teach me the correct way to do it?
Thanks
Ariel
Sho Bud "the proffesional"8&4,gretch syncromatic,messa mark IV,POD XT,echoplex

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Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

Hope this helps:

It's hard, but ankle flexibility is the key and making sure the R lever is adjusted so that it's close enough to your knee.

Try doing the pedal moves without using the R lever just as an exercise to get used to using the right side of your foot on the B pedal, the left side on the A pedal. Exaggerate your ankle/foot roll.

Then try mixing the knee lever in as you practice the moves until you can do it pretty accurately.

You also might have to use a tip-toe position of your pedal foot on that A pedal so you can reach the knee lever easier. So you'd be also raising your knee under the guitar at the same time.

If you're wearing boots with a stiff shank, this could make it harder; if you are, you might try it without.

(it took me a long time to get this move down - you'll probably be able to do it sooner than me)

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I think the best way is to have your E raises & lowers on your right leg like a lot of us do. I used to have mine on the left years ago but not having the technique of BE, I moved 'em......JH in Va.

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Ken Williams · From: Arkansas

If I understand correctly, I do that a fair amount. By moving back 2 frets from the pedals down position you can play, what I think is, a G6add9. For example, in the key of G, play strings 8,7,6,5 at the 8th fret with the B pedal down and the lever that raises the E's 1/2 tone. I also use it sometimes in place of the lever that lowers the B strings 1/2 tone. I played for years without the B lower lever, so I kinda got in the habit of it. A typical position might be 2 frets back from the pedals up position and depressing the lever that lowers the B strings. For example, in the key of D, one might play strings (10,8,6), (10,6,4), (8,6,5), (6,5,4), (8,5,3), or (3,4,5) at the 8th fret with the lever engaged that lowers the B strings. In place of that, many times I just move back to the 7th fret and press the B pedal and the lever that raises the E's 1/2 tone to get that same chord. I play the Day setup and the lever that raises the E's is LKR. Levers are pretty close to my old fat leg, so it's not that difficult to do with a little practice. If you have an adjustment on the lever, you might try moving it a little closer to your leg. Also, I don't know what type of footwear you play in, but make sure that you have good freedom of motion in the ankle. Some folks play in cowboy boots, but I never could. Maybe I just didn't have the right kind of boots.

Ken

[This message was edited by Ken Williams on 24 May 2006 at 07:13 PM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

If you back your foot away from the pedals a little,
and then raise the heel it is easier
to not hit pedal A until you need to.
Takes practice.

Henry Nagle · From: Santa Rosa, California

Make sure your pedal heights are adjusted to your liking.

Ariel Lobos · From: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Thanks to everybody! ...my R lever is in my left leg,left side,just a little away from pedal A,maybe my technician find a better location if i can't do the things like you teach me.The point is y have two levers in my right leg too...but I gonna try all the ways you said to find the best way..
Ariel

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Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Ariel,
Many players, in fact MOST PLAYERS, have the E to F change on LKL as you do. Some moves are easier for the body to execute than others BUT many of those combinations that appear cumbersome at first will become much easier with practice. You must 'TEACH' your body to do them -- it WILL LEARN.

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edit -- another thought
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YOU MUST HAVE THE A PEDAL (and the F lever) ADJUSTED PROPERLY. You should be able to press the B pedal then rock on to the F lever without touching the A pedal. You may need to
* lower your A pedal, relative to the B pedal
and/or
* adjust the F lever so that it requires less movement of your knee

I have the same layout of the B pedal and the E to F lever as you and use that combination. It can be done just as you have it.

Good luck.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 25 May 2006 at 09:00 AM.]

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

I agree with Larry, fool with it awhile and it will become second nature. I wouldn't think it's worth changing your copedant over. So many things with this instrument feel awkward at first but practice and repetition will render ordinary what you took for impossible. My setup is like yours as well and I find that move fairly easy.....now.

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

I use the left side of my foot on the B pedal in that B/F combination, just like A/F, and just hold the F lever and move my foot over to the A pedal for that change.
I use a "0" pedal to the left of my A pedal so this foot move is one I use alot and it seems the most natural for me.
JE:-)>

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Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons SD-12PP 3/5
Zum SD-12 5/5 - 91'
76'Session 400
86'Nashville 400
06'Nashville 112

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Ariel, I had the exact same trouble when learning to play that tune, as tabbed in the Winnie Winston book.

After messing with those changes a little, I realized that the exact same chord can be found by sliding up one fret and using the knee lever that lowers the 5th string to Bb.

Specifically, in measure 31, instead of playing it as written, which is:
4th fret, with B-pedal and raising E's.

Play this:
5th fret, with lever lowering B's.

Hopefully, you're steel has that knee lever. It's MUCH easier to play that move than the B-pedal + LKL lever.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Larry gives some good advice. The hardest thing for some players to learn is rocking (both ways) on and off the A&B pedals without moving your knee. This type of movement is almost essential, so it's best to just practice until you can do it!

rpetersen · From: Iowa

Unless I'm not reading this right - couldn't you move down on fret and use 1/2 A pedal, or easier yet- down 2 frets and use AB pedals and E to F raise lever

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Ron Petersen &
The Keep'n Tyme Band
Mullen Universal 12 - Session 400 - Vegas 400 - ETC.

Dave Ristrim · From: Whites Creek, TN

Keep in mind that if you hit the B pedal then the E lever twice and then the R lever, you get a nice cool refreshing adult beverage. Buuuurrrrrrp!

[This message was edited by Dave Ristrim on 27 May 2006 at 04:31 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

LOL, goodun dude!

Ariel Lobos · From: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Now I understand why you said this is the right place,the best forum!.....thanks thanks thanks..I´m working on your choices to found the better for me,I´m agree with mocasin style shoes opinion,I think there are really confortable ,I can´t play with boots yet....I should adjust the lever too,maybe a little closer to my leg,but I guess I have to practice,practice and practice.You gave me a lot of information that I didn´t knew......I´ll be back when my better choice works.
Ariel

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

Ariel:
IMO: You need to adjust your (A)-(B) pedals and Left~Knees first. Push your LKL all the way against the stop. At the same time, depress the (B)-pedal and check your (A)-pedal. If you are engaging your (A)-pedal, you will need to lower it until your foot no longer depresses it when engaging LKL & P-(B). The same proceedure is applicable when engaging P-(A) & LKR. Somewhere there is a happy medium! Start with (A)-(B)-(C) pedals parallel to the floor. Then Raise (A)-(C) or Lower (B).

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“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
Current Equipment

Nic du Toit · From: Milnerton, Cape, South Africa

Ariel,
Listen to 'Big John' !
My lever is on the right knee, but what John says makes sense.

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Nic du Toit
1970 P/P Emmons D10 Fatback 8x5
Peavey Session 500 unmodfied
Click on the images to go to the CD's
Click here for Nic's other projects
Click here to E-mail us.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Lots of good advice above, but one thing you should look at is the position of the left foot. I think the foot should rest over the AB pedals at about a 45 degree angle, the heel should be planted at little to the right of the C pedal. If the raise lever is adjusted to hang straight down, it won't need to move too far to the left. You should be seated with the center of the body at about the 15th-17th fret. This works best for me, BTW, I do have the A pedal just a little higher then the B. And, practice!

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Bill Moore...
my steel guitar web page

Ariel Lobos · From: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Tucker:
I'haven't this lever in my sho bud.....thanks for your advice..
Ariel

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