Why, Oh Why???

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 May 2006 12:44 pm

I conducted an experiment once and 'posted' something in the course of a 'discussion' that I'd 'lifted verbatim' from Buddy Emmons in another thread - naturally, I was 'shot down in flames' and 'my' opinion dismissed as being of no account )....

Silly you!

Do you really expect people to value your opinion when you haven't played on 1,000 hit records, when you're not playing 7 days a week, when you've never been on the cover of a big magazine, when you haven't been inducted into at least 2 "Halls Of Fame", when you don't play regularly with a "chart artist", when you haven't built thousands of steels, and you don't have at least 12 instrumental CD's to your credit?

There are those who don't.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 10 May 2006 4:10 pm

No - and that was the point!

I just wanted to measure the 'leg humping quotient' on here. Or, to put it another way, what's the point of anyone, apart from the Big Guys, saying anything on the Forum?

RR[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 10 May 2006 at 05:52 PM.]

Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 10 May 2006 5:09 pm

I often think of it as a nice place to visit with friends. In reality I have little to contribute, just an occasional purchase or donating a small lick that I think someone else may like.

Ron Bryson · Post by **Ron Bryson** » 10 May 2006 5:35 pm

I usually refrain from joining this type of thread, and for the reasons given by Larry Bell. I did notice in another thread (WHY C6?) that Larry, and others had offered some of the most astute advice that I had seen here in a while. A novel topic would be to have a subject, much like Larry's answer in this thread, directed at players who crave to learn from more experienced players. That, and to see what's for sale is the biggest reason I check on here. I will admit, that the Steel Guitar Forum has become quicker to scan over. I feel time sitting at my guitar is more valuable than reading useless comparisons of equipment or personalities. If any of the more experienced players could approach this, I for one would be grateful, and I'll bet others would also. Ron

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 11 May 2006 3:29 am

As usual Larry Bell nails it.

It may be superflous, but I seriously think that many overheated discussions could be avoided by beginning any replies to those subjective topics with a simple "IMHO".

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 11 May 2006 4:32 am

Sometimes I wonder why people even talk.
And I guess we all like to see our names in print. (Or better: 'Hey, Buddy Emmons responded to something I wrote!")

In a sense, it's all philosophy, and the answers change with the times.
I remember asking "Why E9?"
I've moved on to 'why E'? Getting deeper?
Or just getting in deeper?

I feel time sitting at my guitar is more valuable than reading useless comparisons of equipment or personalities.

Then the forum is accomplishing something.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 11 May 2006 5:39 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>My dog's better than your dog,
My dog's better than yours
My dog's better ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. MY dog's better.

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My web site
[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 11 May 2006 at 06:40 AM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 11 May 2006 5:50 am

On a more serious note, We have a lot of newbies and sophmores here who have a lot of questions, and sometimes some pretty good answers. I think the best thing about this forum is that we can all teach and learn from each other.

The twos things we all have in common are
1- we all love this instrument.

2- we all want to be better at it.

This forum gives us a chance to pick each other's brians, and share our revelations and insights. It's also a good way for us to get to meet each other.

Yes, it sometimes gets a little rocky. That's just life. And like life, it's not all roses and cherries, but we are all better off for it's being here, warts and all.

I'd miss it if it were gone.

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My web site
[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 11 May 2006 at 06:52 AM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 11 May 2006 6:03 am

Is it true that the ONLY music is COUNTRY music?

I have to say, this question bothers me. I was once told by a bluegrass banjo player that as far as he was concerned, Mozart, Neethoven, Miles Davis, John Coletrane and the Beatles didn't exist. They didn't play bluegrass, so to use his expression, (4 letter word) them.

Frankly I don't understand that attitude. There are great artists producing great music in every genre, be it country, jazz, rock, blues, classical or whatever. The way I see it, to arbitrarily say "I'm going to listen to this one kind of music and shut out everything else" is to deprive yourself of the pleasure of hearing a lot of wonderul stuff.

I just don't understand why anybody would want to do that.

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My web site

Tom Stolaski · Post by **Tom Stolaski** » 11 May 2006 7:30 am

The part I like about this forum is the technical side and the history. Having Paul Franklin explain pick blocking and Buddy Emmons walk me through the art of bar twirling is the reason I get on this forum. I have learned more about the history of this instrument then any books that are available. I tend to skim over the personal stuff, and try to filter out what I need or what is interesting to me. Larry Bell likes to play pedal steel without shoes. I tried that. It makes my feet hurt. To each his own

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 11 May 2006 7:50 am

Good post Mike. I don't understand a narrow minded attitude towards different kinds of music and even different styles. That bothers me. As far as reading the same old questions over and over goes, the subject line is usually a dead give away that a post may be one that's been asked a thousand times. So I don't read those and choose to pick through topics that I do want to read. I dig hanging out here and would miss it if it were gone.

Rick

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 11 May 2006 7:50 am

Barry, yes it is the Peter Priciple, now that you mention it,
though I had not been specifically thinking of that when I wrote it.

Mike P. I can't fathom not wanting to
develope my musical ear until I no longer hear.

I don't want to hear Bartok every day,
but some months I can't NOT hear some.
At other times Bella Fleck is the only solace for enui.

Still others gotta get Bird and Train in the background.

And if Crazy Train comes on the radio I still crank it up.

But I can understand others not needing that kind of diverse input.

Heck some people don't listen to music AT ALL!!!
EVEN WHEN IT'S FREEEEEEE!!![This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 May 2006 at 08:51 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 11 May 2006 8:05 am

Wellllll . . .
. . . alrighty then . . .

A lot has been said -- as usual, some great comments and observations.

One common thread I've seen among several responses was, and I'll paraphrase,
"The new members need to ask those questions to learn"

NO -- NOT TRUE

The newbies should do their homework. There are many years of information archived on this Forum, thanks to our friend, b0b. Many new users either aren't aware of the search function or aren't willing to learn to use it to find information that they need. So, the same old questions get asked REPEATEDLY. Often, another member will do the search for the topic originator and quote older threads that discuss the topic. This is above and beyond the call of duty and should prompt the new user to realize that it is common courtesy to dig a bit and determine whether a question has already been asked (and ANSWERED).

PLEASE use the search function if you suspect that someone may have asked your question before. If you don't find what you're looking for, by all means ask again, but it is common courtesy to other members to do the homework.

Of course I agree that it's important for new steel players to bounce ideas off more experienced players. I believe that I have taken as much time as most any member of this Forum to explain the elements of technique and music theory to newbies but I also get tired of answering the same questions over and over.

I would also request that any new members or any member who hasn't read it take a look at my Newbie's Guide to the Steel Guitar Forum. You'll be doing yourself and others a great favor.

Once again, my hat is off (if I wore a hat) to b0b and our moderators for the great service this Forum provides for the steel guitarists of the world.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 11 May 2006 8:54 am

After all that has been said,and posted before and we just have to look it up, then what will we talk about? I know - Go Buffalo Sabres, I had to get that in

. Joe
PS. My spelling and writing skills that would be a good post.Oh yes that all ready has been posted. Can anyone think of something that we havn't talked about?

Tim Jones of Kansas · Post by **Tim Jones of Kansas** » 11 May 2006 9:19 am

"Ron Sodos" <------ this guy makes sense. I agree with him.

Tim Jones
~)Fender 1000 and NOTHIN' else...(~

Robert Bayles · Post by **Robert Bayles** » 11 May 2006 9:32 am

As a relative new-comer to the forum, and someone that definitely thinks outside the box, I’d have to say that I am almost afraid to post anything. Constructive criticism is one thing, but the prospect of being flamed or otherwise personally attacked goes against my grain big time. In the eight weeks or so that I have been monitoring the forum I have seen plenty of that sort of thing, and quite frankly there is no need for it.

That being said, let me also inject that I think the forum is a valuable resource for all of us. There are some individuals who’s opinion I’ve come to value because their posts are knowledgeable and to the point…many of them appear in this very thread. Once again I wish to thank you all for your help and dedication.

Mike: I agree completely. There are only two kinds of music…that which I like (some of almost everything from Baroque to Metal), and that which I don’t like (Rap and Opera)…your mileage may vary, and that is fine too. While some of my earliest musical influences were country (George, Tammy, Charlie Pride, the Hanks…Williams & Snow, and others), I never noticed the steel guitars. The first time I ever paid any attention to steel guitar was in Teach Your Children so were it not for JG I may never have developed an appreciation for PSG. I also happen to like RR, and think Harry James trumpet solo on You Made Me Love You is just begging for a PSG cover.

Larry: Sometimes those searches can return a lot of results. While I am on disability (legally blind) and can afford the time it would take to read through all those posts (time is about all I can afford

), I am sure that is not the case with everyone. Not trying to be argumentative here, just an observation.

Bob

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 11 May 2006 9:44 am

I’d have to say that I am almost afraid to post anything. Constructive criticism is one thing, but the prospect of being flamed or otherwise personally attacked goes against my grain big time. In the eight weeks or so that I have been monitoring the forum I have seen plenty of that sort of thing, and quite frankly there is no need for it.

Hi Robert! Glad to see you posting! Don't be afraid to post. We're all good here. Some of us are more opinionated than others.(I know I am) Thats all right. As far as being personnally attacked, I would say that is overrated. Some folks get a little too sensitive at times.

There are some fine folks here. Sit back and enjoy. You will not find a more resourcful site!

We want bite!

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 11 May 2006 9:53 am

Larry, I totally agree that newcomers should read your Newbie Guide (thank you!) and the Forum FAQ, and use the search function to get the "lay of the land" here. But they have to know enough to do that. IMO, a gentle reminder in the 349th thread titled "Hey, what do you think about the Nashville 112 Amp" is reasonable.

But I somewhat disagree that, simply because seasoned veterans have hashed through every conceivable topic numerous times, and it's just "out there somewhere", that newer members shouldn't have some of these same discussions here for their own. It's one thing reading about stuff, and another to be engaged in a multi-way active discussion about something. That is active 2-way learning, which is different than reading someone else's discussion. The feedback loop is important to learning, IMO. Of course, I agree that reading on ones own is important. However, as has been pointed out many times, the search function is far from perfect, and many things that have been discussed aren't all that easy to find. This is assuming that the newbie actually knows what to search for - which is not always a good assumption.

As always, IMO.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 11 May 2006 10:24 am

Well, I'll tell you the biggest thing I have learned from this topic so far:

I feel really badly about addressing Buddy as Mr. Emmons in one of my posts...

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Mark

Post by **b0b** » 11 May 2006 10:37 am

That's better than addressing me as Mr. Quasar!

I mean, at least it's his real name...

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 11 May 2006 11:05 am

Yeah, but that's not as awkward as typing "Mr. b0b" or is it "Mr. bOb?"

Or as far as the Quasar thing goes - you could always tell folks that you are the heir to the Motorola fortune...

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Mark
[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 11 May 2006 at 12:12 PM.]

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 11 May 2006 11:10 am

Larry, if people would only start new threads that have never been discussed before, the forum could almost be closed down!

Seriously, I think you are right in some way, but you also have to consider that reposting a topic might bring up some interesting aspects or opinions. Of course, the question "who played steel on..." is a dead issue once it has been answered.

Another thing that makes me wonder sometimes is double-posting. Somebody starts a thread, and somebody else starts the same thread a while after (I don't mean double-posts at the same time, if something interesting happens!), often while the initial thread is still open and active, that means it is not buried yet! A good example was the Lloyd Green article by Robbie Fulks in the Journal of Country Music earlier this year. I think there were four or five threads on the topic, within a few weeks, everytime it seemed to me that the poster had not read the previous thread about the same topic...

Kind Regards, Walter

www.lloydgreentribute.com
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 11 May 2006 11:15 am

Now Walter, I was always trying to be your "wingman" on those Lloyd article threads...

Despite our collective salesmanship, I wonder how many folks sent for the magazine?

After all, it IS required reading.

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Mark

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 11 May 2006 11:28 am

Robert -- you sound like just the kind of guy who SHOULD be posting

Dave, Walter et al -- Even though it may sound like it from my posts I don't disagree with you that these discussions may (and SHOULD) be refreshed / rehashed from time to time. My beef is that it is much easier to PROCEED with a conversation / discussion / learning experience once everyone is on the same page. I also feel that many Forum members may not even be aware that the search function EXISTS and many more don't really understand how to use it. Those who are accustomed to using Google or other search engines have experience with what a search algorithm does (including irrelevant hits) and how to process the results. It would be nice if the Forum (UBB) search engine was a bit more powerful BUT IT IS A VERY USEFUL TOOL AS IS.

Once again, our eternal gratitude to Mr. Quasar.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 11 May 2006 at 12:29 PM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 11 May 2006 12:50 pm

It's fine with me if a newbie wants to ask a question that has asked 1,000 times before.

This instrument is intimidating enough. We shouldn't scare people by flaming them for asking the same questions we all asked when we were starting, just because they've been asked before.

Nobody forces anybody to read every thread. It you're bored with a subject, don't read the thread.

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My web site