How Many Jazzplayers

Graham Griffith · Post by **Graham Griffith** » 4 Jun 2003 2:23 pm

Over here in Australia, one principal player, Michel Rose, who appeared with the Feral Swing Cats at Scotty's last convention, was playing and recorded with a world music (essentially jazz) group called "The Catholics". Still relegated to a minor role though, with the horn players dominating.

Graham

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 4 Jun 2003 3:25 pm

Yep, Murph is Tops

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Steel what?

Mike Delaney · Post by **Mike Delaney** » 4 Jun 2003 3:43 pm

Dan T- Great example of Johnny, Wes, and Miles. There is a limit to how long I can listen to Trane or Monk (although I love 'em both)but I never get tired of those cats.

Another is Paul Desmond. There's a book of his solo's available from places like Borders or Barnes and Noble. Same with Wes, many good transcriptions available.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 4 Jun 2003 4:49 pm

To date, what I've heard pass for jazz on steel guitar isn't what real combo jazz players would call jazz. The bands are too rehearsed, the arrangements too organized, too little of that indefinable something that makes a group "swing".

I thought I was a jazz player (on six string) until I got in a combo with 3 real jazz cats. They took me to school (and I'm grateful).

The guys I play with in TJQ loathe the genre known as "smooth jazz". They're into Sonny Rollins, T. Monk, Miles Davis, Jobim, etc. They're purists, and I wouldn't get the steel within 50 feet of the stage.

I've heard some guys who could certainly play this stuff- Herby Wallace and Jim Cohen for two (I'm sure there are many others), but the tracks I heard behind them didn't swing. I'd like to hear those guys with a real kickin' band.

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Rick McDuffie
Tarheel Jazz Q-tet
Debbie Elam Band
www.tarheelmusic.com

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 04 June 2003 at 05:53 PM.]

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 4 Jun 2003 7:11 pm

Rick-I think you might have hit on something there. A lot of real jazz players, do have a problem finding a good swinging backup band, as to your interpretation...al

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David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Jun 2003 11:07 pm

Yep Rick and Al, I agree that on most of the "Swing" tracks I hear have a country rhythm section with swing influences..
but are clearly weekend jazz players.
I love Counterpoint, but the drummer just wasn't up to the gig, Curley sure was.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 5 Jun 2003 5:32 am

Has any jazz psg player recorded with an acoustic rhythm section, i.e. acoustic piano and bass? Other than the BE Steel Guitar Jazz album and Tom Morell/Maurice Anderson Sextet Sessions, I can't think of any...excluding Western Swing; I'm thinking of a mainstream jazz rhythm section of acoustic instruments...

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 5 Jun 2003 8:16 am

Who needs a rhythm section anyway? (if youre
Jeff Lampert)

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 5 Jun 2003 8:56 am

speakin' of Jeff,
i have'nt seen him around here lately

Jeff Evans · Post by **Jeff Evans** » 5 Jun 2003 3:17 pm

John McGann--

Absolutely.

The album of one very competent player is just marred by a Velveeta sounding electrified piano. I
realize our steel friends don't necessarily have quarter of a million dollar recording budgets, but I've
heard wonderful sounding baby grands in little studios; they're already there--why not use them?

Jelle Biel · Post by **Jelle Biel** » 5 Jun 2003 8:50 pm

John McGann
try the CD TENOR/STEELMadnes withao; Toots Thielemans&Koos Biel on steel [URL=http:/
THIELEMANS, Toots http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/akek/0400-sideman401-450/0431-h-steeltenor.htm
[URL=http://www.greenapple.com/~ace1/index110.html]

[This message was edited by Jelle Biel on 05 June 2003 at 09:54 PM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 6 Jun 2003 6:37 am

Wow, with Toots, one of my favorites! Thanks for the tip, Jelle!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 19 Apr 2005 1:00 pm

In addition to the obvious "bug guns" (Emmons, Rugg, Jernigan, Anderson, Wallace), these lesser known jazz steel players have CDs in the Forum catalog:
Randy Beavers
Dave Easley
John Heinrich
Mike Ihde
Dr. Hugh Jeffreys
David Phillips
Richard Nelson
Bob Taillefer
Al Vescovo

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)[This message was edited by b0b on 19 April 2005 at 02:03 PM.]

Jonathan Gregg · Post by **Jonathan Gregg** » 19 Apr 2005 7:00 pm

Re earlier, the excellent Dan Hovey moved to Maryland a while back. Guitar duties in Western Caravan are being handled by Skip Krevens (also a top steel player locally), and John Widgren is still dragging a mean bar.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Apr 2005 7:35 pm

In addition to the obvious "bug guns" (Emmons, Rugg, Jernigan, Anderson, Wallace), these lesser known jazz steel players have CDs in the Forum catalog:

Hey b0b, what's a "Bug Gun"?

Guess I need to send you some more CDs, huh?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 20 Apr 2005 1:46 am

Hey b0b you forgot one logical player...
Brother Jimbaux Cohen just above me.
He defintely plays some jazz, and well too,

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 20 Apr 2005 6:00 am

IMHO the steel guitar is the instrument closest to a piano. ans as far as being able to not get the proper voicings and tones I totally disagree. I personally have went up against those "traditional jazz arists" and have won their approval with the instrument. I have been shuned by guitarists who think of us as a twangy instrument. Sometimes I think some of the boundries of our instrument are not set by us but by others who are unknowledgable. Guess it's our job to cross those boundries. And yes, i get tired of sappy sax solos on country but A steeler can't play jazz??????what's wrong with this picture? I like musicians who play music and don't worry about what kind of tool I use to reflect my heart and soul. Oh I'm sorry can I say that. Not being a jazz player am I allowed to say I play from my heart??? Whatever. Sorry if I'm pissy but I have been on the receiving end of a lot of crap regarding wanting to play jazz and nobody picks you to be on their team. Oh well life goes on. gotta go work on my recoding of Birdland!!hehehehe

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Steelin' away in the ozarks and life,
Scott
www.scottyhenderson.com

Jeppe Grangaard · Post by **Jeppe Grangaard** » 20 Apr 2005 12:47 pm

Henry You really got a great jazz steeler in Europe. My Man here is Richard Nelson, Ireland. I heard him play Coltrane’s Favourite Things, Monk,Wayne Shorter, + standards with almost hornlike lines backed by jazz trio. Some solos bebopped and some really funky stuff too. Ohh, some jazz horn things suit pedal steel just fine! Here’s a photo from the concert www.pbase.com/borissteel/image/41515501
Jeppe [This message was edited by Jeppe Grangaard on 20 April 2005 at 01:48 PM.]

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 20 Apr 2005 1:20 pm

Scott, that's disappointing.
I have to comment though, my own experiences have been the exact opposite. I've hunted high and low for the proverbial "jazz snob" without any luck. Everyone I've played with is interested in the steel to say the least. 99% of the jazzheads I've had the pleasure of knowing sincerely don't care what kind of instrument you use, as long as you know what's going on.
-John
p.s. And it's lead to some cool gigs, too !

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www.ottawajazz.com

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 20 Apr 2005 1:46 pm

My experience has been exactly like John's. I've even got a few really cool gigs because I posted this link on the forum a couple years ago: http://stevenbiondo.com/schmidt.html

Yesterday I got to do 2 high school assemblies with a jazz band including a steel drum player, a jazz pianist, a vibist, and Al Jarreau's bass player. They all liked the steel.

Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 20 Apr 2005 2:12 pm

I like where this old thread is heading!. Indeed there are some Steel players actually out doing the jazz thing. Personally I've been treated very well by the jazz playing community around here. And many times they are very helpful. I just totally put my ego aside almost everyone is open and friendly.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 20 Apr 2005 10:44 pm

Try using a lighter bar. MUCH lighter - 4 to 7 ounces. The tone "breathes" more, it's not so dead & flat sounding. You can play faster up and down each string and get much more control over the inflection of notes - how you get into and out of each note.

A 3/4" by 3 3/8" steel bar weighs 6.5 oz, a Shubb/Pearse SP1 like Tyack and Randolph use weighs 5.5 oz. The Indian guys use tiny metal bars, 5/8" by 3" or so. Glass and acrylic bars work great too. Of course you don't get the same sustain, but stop trying to make it do exactly what it won't do, and let it do what it will do, which is sound human. You're allowed to use different bars for different sounds? Patience is a virtue.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 21 Apr 2005 11:25 am

David-Not a bad idea. About 35 years ago, on one of my trips to Dallas, Reece gave me a small hollowed out lightweight Bar, said he used one like it.

I have been using it ever since on faster songs, but I use my big BJS bar on the slower stuff for more sustain....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Richard Nelson · Post by **Richard Nelson** » 24 Apr 2005 7:45 pm

Jeppe . Thanks for that . John Mc Gann My album has an all accoustic band on it apart from Guitar and steel.... and I know you have it ? I think that the reason steel hasn"t made it into the list of standard jazz instruments is because nobody has actually taken it there yet. . Most players these days learn E9 first and then C6 . Then they get into the merry-go ruond of making money versus making music .I think that jazz is music that you have to live ,eat and breathe. The jazz players I know don't play any other kind of music and they suffer financially. It's tough for them , and how many of them ever really make it in the jazz world? Few...What we need is some guy about 16 yrs old with talent to totally dedicate his life to playing jazz on steel and have the charisma to make it . Who would ever have have thought the vibes would ever become what they are in jazz ...... somebody had to do it. .In june I am taking a whole year off to play jazz.... wish me luck .. www.ricknelson.workzsites.com

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 25 Apr 2005 6:01 am

I sure do, excellent CD, my earlier post is probably dated before you even went into the studio (old thread!).

Zappa called jazz "the soundtrack of poverty" and for most of us, that's too true! In the good ol' USA, birthplace of the music, people generally know nothing about this style, and just reject it out of hand. I actually heard a quote: "JAZZ? That's where no one knows the melody, and they just play whatever they want!!" In Europe and a few other places like Japan, people seem generally more exposed/educated to a variety of different music, and lots of jazz musicians are revered there and unknown here.

I know the first time I heard a jazz recording, I had no idea what was going on, and that's what drew me to it. I had to learn a few things before I could really appreciate it...just like anything else: don't you enjoy baseball more when you understand what the heck everyone is doing out there?

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
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