Resonant discord

Dave Marshall · From: Ontario, Canada






        A PORTION OF "STRANGER ON THE SHORE"


st


05-|-----------8A-|-8~~~~-----|----------------|----|


06-|-8--8B--8-----|-8~~~~---8-|-----8---8B-----|----|


07-|--------------|-----------|-8-------8------|----|


08-|--------8-----|-8E~~8-----|-------------8E-|-8--|


09-|--------------|-----------|----------------|----|


10-|--------------|-----------|-------------8--|-8--|


    tak-ing all my  dreams and  tak-ing all of   me

My E-lever drops 4 and 8 one fret.

When I get to "of" the 9th string resonates and gives a discord. How do you pro guys handle this type of thing?

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

This may be it -- worth checking out:

Are you sure you're blocking the 6th string with the B pedal -- there's a 5th relationship between the 9th string and the 6th with the B pedal that could cause resonance. If your bar is still covering the 6th string I'd suggest that you move the nose of the bar back to cover no higher string than the 8th after the note duration for 'all' is over.

In general it's poor technique to cover with the bar any strings higher than the highest one being picked. Sometimes you will get away with it; other times you will either hear the note itself or possibly another one that resonates with it.

When you slide the bar back to only cover the 8th string be sure the tip of your middle finger extends just slightly past the end of the bar. That will automatically block both the 6th and 7th as you go.

It's possible that 9 is resonating from when you pick the F note (8B on 6) so you may actually want to palm block everything quickly before playing the 8th and 10th strings. It will sound choppy if you don't do it just right.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 11 April 2006 at 04:53 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

What Larry says may indeed be true, but I can't figure out why that 9th is resonating? Are you sure you're not hitting the 9th with one of your picks? If I've understood what you're saying, and the tab, you should be able to pick all four of these notes (6&7 with the "B" pedal, and then 8&10 with the "E" lever) to get a nice 4-tone G7th chord. The 9th shouldn't be resonating because you're not moving the bar, and that B note's not even in the key you're playing.

Sounds odd to me.

Dave Marshall · From: Ontario, Canada

Larry, I tried your tip, but I did not solve the problem. I had to touch string-9 with my finger to cure it.

Donny, try playing it on your PS and see what you get.

Another thing; my bar is 11 ounces (315g) 1" x 3-3/4". I put on a 60 gauge low E (supposed to be 56 I think) but the weight of the bar raises the pitch, so I play at an angle when I use the low string on a diad. Should I go to 70 gauge?

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Dave, I tried it on two steels, and couldn't recreate your problem. As to changing the guage, I wouldn't do that, either. You must just learn to regulate the bar pressure to keep the sharpening effect to a minimum when only playing one or two strings, and you must also "correct" any raising tendencies of the bar by just backing up the position a little. The frets are just a rough guide, don't take them as gospel when it comes to playing the note! You should learn these little skills as you go along by just listening very carefully, and it sounds like you're doing that.

Unless you have some sort of physical disability, I wouldn't recommend changing anything on a steel to compensate for an improper technique. When you do that, you're limiting yourself to only playing your own steel. (You should want to be able to play the basics on anyone's steel, not just your own "modified" instrument.)

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I'm with Donny. There is something basicly wrong about how you are playing if you have the problem of strings you are not picking making too much noise. You are using the bar wrong or your right hand is screwy. Turn off your computer, toss out your tab and DVD's and find a guy that plays well to show you how he does it. Then show him how you play and he can tell you what you are doing wrong. A little correction and alot of practice will fix you right up.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

John Steele (deceased) · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

I've tried it too, but my 9th string doesn't resonate. I can't duplicate the problem either.

I have to say though, the very first thing that crossed my mind when I played it was "I wouldn't play that there...".

So, in conclusion, I think your ninth string is jealous and wants to get into the act, so you should play the last two notes like this:



4---------


5---------


6--3--3B--


7---------


8---------


9--3------


10----3A--

Or, if you really want the exact same notes as the original tab and not include the dominant 7th tone, it's here:

4--------
5--------
6--3--3B-
7--------
8--3--3--
9--------
10-------

Sorry I can't help with the physics though.

-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · From: Ayrshire, Scotland

This may not help, but you can try it.
I recently had a reso' problem where one certain note would `die` on me.
Try the cure here that solved my case.
The resonance behind the nut may be the cause. http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/008926.html
Cheers, Arch.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

You don't happen to tune your 9th string to C#, do you? (Some people do.)

Whenever I have a problem with a string ringing, I mute it with the pinky of my right hand.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Lucky Oceans · From: Fremantle, W Australia, Australia

To prevent unwanted strings from ringing, I mute with the tip of my index finger of my left hand

Lucky Oceans · From: Fremantle, W Australia, Australia

Sorry - the index finger is for high strings. Use the tip of the left hand thumb to mute low strings that are inadvertently sounding because of vibrato or bar movement or if you want to strum a chord without a particular string sounding.

Dave Marshall · From: Ontario, Canada

Thanks guys for all the sound advice.

No, Bobby, the 9th string is D.

If the tune is played at fret 3 instead of 8 the effect is more noticeable.

To me a 7, a 7b and a 5 don't make a nice sound. Its not a big deal since I am not playing for a living (I'd starve!)

I think Lucky's solution works for me but is one extra thing for a novice to fumble with. With Bobby's mute I can't see where the tip of my pinky is.

I had thought about pulling 9 up to Eb along with dropping 8 on my E-lever.

Thanks again everyone. You guys are great!

[This message was edited by Dave Marshall on 12 April 2006 at 07:41 PM.]

Dave Marshall · From: Ontario, Canada

John Steele says:

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I play it anywhere it sounds good, economy of bar movement just isn't a consideration on a slow song. If I were playing it in a band, and the bass was dropping down on that note, I'd stay at fret 8. If the bass was going up or staying in a high register, I'd probably drop down to fret 3. The way tones move and blend is an important part of music. The key for me is to play it where it's musically flowing, and sounds most pleasing with the rest of the instruments. (I think they call that "arranging".

)

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I agree with Hoffnar (strange tho that may sound)

You need someone with some pedal steel savvy (maybe John S???) to sit down with you and watch you play that phrase then you watch them do the same thing and IT WILL BE EVIDENT.

I know Ontario is a large province, but there are many excellent steel players in your neck of the woods.

There's something subtle going on here that you may not realize you're doing. A picture is worth a thousand words and having an experienced player you can bounce ideas off is INVALUABLE. Even if you have to travel an hour or so or, God forbid, even PAY THEM.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 13 April 2006 at 06:57 AM.]

John Steele (deceased) · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

Dave,
My suggestion to move it is purely a tone issue.
Someone is likely to disagree with me, or at the least tell me to buy a new horn

but I find things played on the tenth string when not absolutely necessary can take on a punky tone. Moving the voicing up onto the lighter strings and back toward the peghead a bit will give you a tone more consistent with the rest of the piece.
-John
p.s. Larry is very kind, having never heard me play steel. I am a pro only by virtue of the fact that I've sometimes been paid to play. I don't count myself amongst the above company, or as an instructor by any means.

[This message was edited by John Steele on 13 April 2006 at 02:25 PM.]

Dave Marshall · From: Ontario, Canada

Thanks for the explanation, John. I guess 12 stringers are even punkier.

Mapquest says I am

quote:
Total Est. Time: 7 hours, 42 minutes
Total Est. Distance: 334.34 miles

from you, so I doubt we shall ever meet in person.
I am 6 miles from Gowganda, above Sudbury.

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