Anybody on Ritalin? Neurofeedback?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 11 Mar 2006 5:39 pm

Chris, I've been meaning to check then vaprizer out, hut I can always throw a bud in a cup of water and nuke it for 5 minutes if i really wamt to get high.

The truth is, I don't really miss it. Part of the reason is that I am spending all my tine working on another CD. There is a time and place for everything, and for me, studio time is sobriety time, regardless of my medical circumstances. Always has been, since the day I started working on my frst CD.

The way I see it, it's about mood. If you're on stage and you're relaxed and having a good time, the audience will also be relaxed and having a good time. And if you hit a clam, so what? All will be forgiven.

But recording equipment doesn't cared whther you're up tight or relaxed, and it does not forgive mistakes. Recoreding equipment wants to hear the music played right. And so when I'm working in the studio, I'm working.

Maybe that's why they call it playing when we perform.

Anyway, as I mentioned, I can get high, if I want to. I just have to ingest the pot in some woy other than smoking it.

Billy Wilson · Post by **Billy Wilson** » 11 Mar 2006 5:40 pm

Munahnigha wansnortwartweena frruunnhalato

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 11 Mar 2006 6:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I'm not sure if they increase the learning curve or not, though

Practice, repetitive practice, provides neurofeedback of the best kind when the phrase finally become automatic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Inderal, beta-blockers, don't increase the learning curve. And for the practice, for example, I had to play an outdoor concert where my piece was 20 minutes long. I put in just under 3 weeks of 8-hour practice days, which included revising the piece. The purpose being that, as b0b pointed out, everything becomes automatic and should something go wrong, I can recover gracefully.

As fate would have it, just as I was starting, a small plane flew over, to see what was happening. I was able to harmonize it with a couple of bowed rods and the audience loved it. As it flew off, I pressed record on the looper, and started the program.

What the beta blockers do for me is it steadies my hands. If my hands are ok, then I'm ok.[This message was edited by chas smith on 11 March 2006 at 06:01 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 11 Mar 2006 6:07 pm

A lovely line :

an uncluttered mind brings experimentation to life.

I know that when I have less on my plate,
I am more likely to compose or write a song.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 March 2006 at 06:08 PM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 11 Mar 2006 7:16 pm

Make sure you tape what you play when you think you sound so great while under the influence of something... then listen to it when you're straight.

I agree with Bobby Lee.

Rick

Lee Jeffriess · Post by **Lee Jeffriess** » 11 Mar 2006 10:05 pm

Donny, your post,was the most, straight to the piont statement, in the this thread.
But you neglected the highly addictive, steel guitar, the ruin of many a poor boy.
All these stimulants, that you guys are talking about, are in my opion, are only a problem, when they are not used in moderation.
Personaly, I like a couple of brews before i play, im more relaxed,and more forgiving on myself, if, im not hearing my perfect tone or balance.
Eric, good post, you realy turned over a rock.
Lee

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 12 Mar 2006 5:22 am

And if you hit a clam, so what? All will be forgiven.

I'll never forget leaving my body for an indeterminate time during a concert.
There is nothing worse than returning to earth to find all your band members staring at you.

Pat Kelly · Post by **Pat Kelly** » 12 Mar 2006 5:53 am

Eric,

Forget the short story, if the thread keeps going like this there's a novel in it!
But shucks........... Dan Brown!

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 12 Mar 2006 7:26 am

It's Monday morning and I'm sitting in front of the Sheriff...Sheriff, you'll never believe it, I stumbled across this internet site where these old geezers are gettin tweeked out on everything from Vic's Vap-O-Rub to the hard stuff and then they go out and steel later on.

A few days later it's just me b0b and the one endless ZB post and he's askin me if I've heard anything from the other forum members....Ahhhh Nope

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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.[This message was edited by Dick Wood on 12 March 2006 at 07:29 AM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 12 Mar 2006 9:12 am

It's next Tuesday, at the Missing Persons' Bureau..

"Hey... None of us know what happened. He said something about a vacation at a possum farm in Louisiana. Sometimes people just take off.. Whaddya gonna do?.."

Erico

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 12 Mar 2006 3:19 pm

Any mood altering substance which produces performance improving effects, has abuse potential. Some have debilitating side effects like dependency or sleep dysfunction. Others have fewer effects. Alcohol and opiates are high on the list; caffiene is low. [Alcohol and Nicotine Dependence are tied for highest preventable cause of death world wide (W.H.O., 2005).] Meditation, prayer, biofeedback, exersize, etc. all improve brain and body functioning without side effects. Ritilan, similarly, has potential for abuse. Also-just because something is prescribed by a physician does not mean it should be taken.

I misspent a lot of my youth and made poor choices regarding substance use; and I paid dearly for it. I now treat those who do. Going down that road is dangerous, and recommending that others go down that road is equally dangerous. SOme comments are meant to be funny and that's cool. But I hope no one takes seriously, the notion that drug use to enhance performance or creativity, is a good idea.

John Drury · Post by **John Drury** » 12 Mar 2006 5:23 pm

Wow! Never knew you could get high by shoving some weed up your ass!

I don't know guys, as bad as my playing is I don't think I want to use drugs to improve my chops.

I prefer to do my flying by plane.

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John Drury
NTSGA #3

Steve Spitz · Post by **Steve Spitz** » 12 Mar 2006 7:23 pm

Yes, it`s a real jaw dropper when the band steps outside during a break for some "fresh air" , and you announce "excuse me while I place this weed up my ass ". Does anyone ask " Hey pass that thing over here , I could use a puff ?"

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 12 Mar 2006 10:26 pm

Well Buck I don't mean to be facetious, but your statements appear to me to have facets.

Meditation, prayer, biofeedback, exersize, etc. all improve brain and body functioning without side effects.

There are side effects to any form of acetisim. From my memory, yogic excersizes without proper oversight and training are warned to be harmful if not balalanced correctly. Accupuncture is drug free, but that doesn't mean that sticking needles in self devined areas is necessarily helpful.

Likewise meditation, if one is meditating on or praying for things one not ought to meditate or pray for.

Ritilan (corrected to read "Ritalin"), similarly, has potential for abuse.

So do aspirins or antibiotics.

Also-just because something is prescribed by a physician does not mean it should be taken.

That doesn't mean that if something is, then it shouldn't be.

I think the gist of my post was wondering if many people that have focus, or attention directing problems have benefitted by non-recreational drugs.

Obviously from my emails, more than one has.

Myself, I am certain that many that self dose with alcohol would benefit more from abstinence of course, but might also benefit from good credible consultation with professionals in the field of neurology.

I think one would find that many people that are drawn to our instrument are those with more complex minds, which usually come equipped with complex flaws...

Present company possibly excepted.....

Anyhow, thanks for the thoughtful replies, the dangerous suggestions and the suppositorial humor. (Indeed!)

Now, what was I doing?

Oh yeah, practicing...

EJL

Pat Kelly · Post by **Pat Kelly** » 12 Mar 2006 10:59 pm

Steve Spitz,

what a hoot. You'd have to change your spelling in Australia. But I guess we know what you mean.

Chuckle Chuckle.

Edit half an hour later
just read this post again and can't stop laughing. the wife's going to throw me out of the house. I'm waking the kids

[This message was edited by Pat Kelly on 12 March 2006 at 11:42 PM.]

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 13 Mar 2006 2:28 am

There's definitely something wierd going on here. There's a fairly consensus agreement that alcoholics and drug addicts constitute right around 9% of the population (you'll see figures ranging from 7% to 12%). Start reading some biographies of jazz musicians! Or country musicians! Don't even ask about those sinful rockers... Furthermore, it almost seems as though the more talented they were, the worst their proclivities. Who were the most influential country musicians of the second half of the 20th century? Hank Williams, Johnny Cash? Jazz - Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, John Coltrane? (The latter two did shed their heroin addictions to move into the most productive phases.)

Chuck Berry seemed to have his own not-too-healthy ways of dealing with fame, but past him who were the most important rockers? Elvis, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones... Guitarists - Hendrix, Page, Allman, Richards, Garcia, Clapton....

There either seems to be some inherent danger in standing too close to the fire, and/or music and drugs fulfill the same needs in a peculiar type of person who's not content with the standard gratifications. Fortunately, you don't have to outgrow music.

Regarding playing while gacked, drug addicts do feel and function much better while under the influence, other people don't. It certainly never worked for me, I have no idea how people could drink a fifth and play like SRV or shoot heroin and go play a concert - why don't they just go to sleep?

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 13 Mar 2006 4:56 pm

I can agree with that last one. Of all the great folks I ever met, I was always a little more than dissapointed to hear when someone had gone over into heroin. Of course, some people did well enough with it, but for most, it only reinforced their delusions of grandeur- I don't think heroin ever helped anyone pay attention to anything neccescarily... more a means of tuning out impingments of uncomfortable reality.
But as for the TOPIC of the post, Jerry Garcia (dast I name him? >!<) once stated in a 1972 interview that the first Grateful Dead album was recorded under the influence of Ritalin and Dexamyl. (So NOW you know- THAT'S why it's so darn overly fast & speedy!)
I don't think junk did too much for him
other than being a way to turn off the imposing fame seekers around him -his way of slamming the door on the world. But that's the sorrow of it.
People like him had plenty of friends willing to see him get clean, but he only came to that conclusion when he was far enough along to be beyond saving. It usually happens that way doesn't it?
I think that (previous two posts)is good advice, too. TAPE what you are doing if you are high and SEE if it is or it isn't any better than what you could do without.
Often as not, it's not any more or less a help to "playing better"- maybe only to ENJOYING it more!

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 13 Mar 2006 5:58 pm

Hey Eric,
How about trying NADH, also known as coenzyme 1. It is a neurotransmitter that we all have. It is especially abundant in young folks, but falls off rapidly after age 40. It can now be replaced by taking a very tiny pill. NADH is also the neurotransmitter that is absent in folks with Alzheimer's Disease. Georgetown University Medical School did a 10 year study on NADH and found that it improved memory and cognition in people with Alzheimer's, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and well... people with no known impairment. The side effect profile is basically zero. It even has been shown to have mildly antidepressant properties. I believe that it is a great help with us "older" folks. I hardly ever forget where I left my ZB anymore. http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/0,1525,10047,00.html
Duncan

Jon Bergh · Post by **Jon Bergh** » 13 Mar 2006 6:57 pm

re: Steve Spitz on break on a gig... I just don't want to be the guy standing on your left.

As for the rest of this topic, I generally like to think "whatever you gotta do" is okay but even more so "how about letting the music do it for you"?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 13 Mar 2006 8:09 pm

JB:

I think in my case, that's what eventually happened.

Others.

Without a long case history, I've always been a person with more mental activity than application. All of my school years were full of such reports.

Then, I had a breakthrough in self medication. Pot, Alcohol, and other readily available substances. Some worked with varying degrees of success. Our poor old "family doctor" only made it worse be prescribing some bull#@it "anti-depressant", which I luckily flushed when they didn't work. They interfered with my drinking..

Anyhow. My life progressed, as did my drinking, until finally in 1980 I quit, never to drink any alcohol ever again.

At the same time, I began playing Steel Guitar for a seven year period, soley for my livelyhood. Pot only lasted a few years into that, and it never seemed to be a big issue either way.

I think that "music" indeed, and the requirement for applying myself to a demanding regimen of memorization, performance,problem solving etc, and possibly a neuroliical connection that I never understood helped my overall "world". (mental/physical/achievment). So much so that I got a job driving trucks in heavy construction, and continued playing full or nearly full time for 20 years.

Now, I have a nice house, a nice bike, good guitar and a pertty normal stable life. Im not a millionaire like b0b or Mva, but I get by...

I can't help but think that "young eric" might have benefitted more from a some of the advances as mentioned.

Now that my day work is not nearly so demanding, as I"m in a good seniority spot, and I play every weekend, I have at least a couple hours a day to direct to learning new things. Mainly "Telecaster".

Possibly as this last post mentioned, I notice a decline in my learning curve at age 52, and I am indeed willing to take two to three weeks of two hours a day to learn single sections of songs, like mercury blues, and sections of Brad Paisley songs. As I mentioned I tooke two weeks that way to learn Bobbe Seymore's version of "Thanks a Lot".

Once learned, I remember them a long time.

I am indeed interested in some of the advances beyond "Ritilan", and am glad that people aren't quite so ready to dump it down their kids' throats instead of raising them. However, I think it's a shame if some things that could help neurological problems are dismissed out of hand.

If it weren't for quitting drinking, I'd probably be dead like a lot of my friends mentors, and heros.

If it weren't for constantly and steadily playing steel guitar gigs, I think I'd have a lot more trouble coping with the regular overwhelmings that make up Life.

Thanks again for the info.

There are obviously a lot of genuine advances in this field.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 13 March 2006 at 09:37 PM.]

Mark Fasbender · Post by **Mark Fasbender** » 14 Mar 2006 12:02 am

Hey Eric.......... I havent used any drugs or alchohol for about 16 years. Before that I hit it VERY hard for about 20 years so I am familiar with the possible musical benefits of the entire range of use of almost anything available at the time.
I was a professional , touring musician for most of that time. I find that most people practice their instrument in a fashion that makes them become good practicers. A change in practice habits can make it much easier to learn.
I have discovered that running or anything similar is the best "drug" for me.
Has some side effects though, likebetter wind, more oxygen in your body, clearer thought processes, more strength and endurance, easier to own big heavy steels with lots of tone. I also use my run time to clear my mind of clutter and remove stress. Kinda like filing useless BS away. I am 51 and feel as good or better than I ever have. The benefits to my musical endeavors has been profound. I highly recommend this.

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 14 Mar 2006 5:19 am

Wow, this is like hitting below the belt!!!!
I am 64 and almost 65,been a hard worker all my life!!! 15yrs ago,things changed,my wife was dead for 18mins.after surgery,and then the good Lord started her heart back going again. blew the doctor away.

Moral of the story,after feeling trapped,no help just me working and cooking ect. taking care of her,i really went on a PITTY PARTY.
I smoke 2packs a day,and drink like a fish on beer!!
Well 3 years ago,i had open heart surgery,man made valves ect. ALMOST DIDN'T MAKE IT.
They put me on PAXIL 37.5 two years ago.
and now i'm really having problems.
I sit down and play steel some, but lost most interest in it after 40yrs of playing.
I don't know what else to say,except all this will destroy a person.
PLEASE HIDE THIS UNDER A BOX!!!!!!
It is hard to reply to this,but if it can help anyone,i hope it will. DON'T DO THE STUFF. farris

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 14 Mar 2006 5:47 am

So much of the stuff mentioned in this thread is poison.

Ritalin, Dexies,Bennies,Meth, Opiates,Coke, ,Quaaludes... all the same.. death...because of our own lack of self control..

None of this stuff was MEANT to kill or devastate life the way it does..they were designed for medical purposes in specific instances.

Its funny... A drink a day will lengthen your life they say now...good for the heart, circulation etc...so is two better?.. three must be great!!!.... four??.. Superman!.. Where is the line drawn???..

A small amount of caffiene will sharpen your mind... suppossedly its been proven... where's the line?.. one cup of coffee? two? eighteen?

Actually, as I get older, I am more convinced its not the fault of the substance itself.. its the person who uses it as a crutch...We DO seem to lack self control... writing this as I prepare to go gorge on sugar, starch, fat, and caffiene for breakfast....probably every BIT as bad for me as the poisons we are discussing in this thread... if I could just quit!.... bob

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 14 Mar 2006 6:00 am

MF. Yup. Good old Endorphin..

FC I had some idiot doctor give me HALDOL one time. I was concerned about a burn that was "unhealing" on my hand. It's the worst nightmare I remember. He probably meant well. It's the same drug that that Yates gal was on. PURE POISON.

BC. Yup.

At my age I know there are as many bad doctors as there are bad mechanics, and like with them it's up to "us" to find a good one, and walk away when they are not. I've fired several over the years, and am probably alive, or am at least not peeing through a tube because of it.

Gotta run. Half a pot of coffee, a monster drink some nicotine, and then a hard day of hauling rock and a couple backhoes before I get back to my tele...

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 14 March 2006 at 06:03 AM.]

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 14 Mar 2006 7:01 am

"I miss smoking a bowl every now and then."

See you at your retirement party

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.