Unhappy" band situations..

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

anyone in one?? or EVER been in one?.. How long did you stick it out for??

Is it common to stay with a band of guys you don't care for personally or musically because the money is good?.... or nowhere else to go if you want to play your steel, or no one else to play it with??...

I hear guys talking about this locally, and would like to put it before the folks here to discuss..

It would be great if all our gigging situtations were happy and we really loved all the guys we play with, but it seems so many of us struggle to find a band of nice guys /girls that we REALLY enjoy spending a lot of our lives with..

Ever been ???

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Ive found that i cannot stick around for even a week if i am unhappy. If I cannot get along with the others in the band or if there are fundamental philosophiocal diffrences ..its over. I havent been in the position where alot of money was at stake , that might increase my level of patience maybe for a while ..but the inevitable implosion is coming sooner or later if theres tension. i prefer to nip problems in the bud, rather than investing alot of time on someone you cannot stand to be in the same room with, let alone a cramped van on tour for three months straight. i have a few years ont the road....Ive found it IMPOSSIBLE to put up with a bad situation on the road. Sent one guy home on a bus middle of one tour.

I sure do envy non-cpollaborative artists , writers who can fit there whole lifes work on a floppy disc and work on there own schedule and such. Or a one man band tyoe thing...that would be a dream. Eat when you want...sleep when you want, go where you want when you want etc.

[This message was edited by Ben Jones on 12 January 2006 at 09:54 AM.]

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

I can (and have) put up with mediocre musicianship, social ignorance and even bad hygiene on the part of my band-mates. I don't really worry about the money as long as the music is fun to play. I certainly don't have to enjoy the company of everybody involved but when confronted with deception or abuse of any kind I'm gone in a heartbeat.

No dust on these c'boy boots....

Bill McKillop · From: Glasgow, Scotland

I have played with my current band for around 13 years. I play with a good bunch of guys who are always up for a laugh and never take anything too seriously. We did have a guitarist who wanted to bring his girlfriend with hime to all of our gigs but he also wanted the band to pay for her. This was a real drag at the time and was causing tension. He also was one of those guys who couldn't lay back and wanted to play over the top of everyone. He would play his solo then he would want to play on yours too. We soon got shot of him. Since then, the personel who have came into the band have all fitted in because we like to have a laugh. There are also no superstars in the band. I think that has been a recipe for success. We only play weekends though so I don't know what it would be like being on the road with a bunch of guys.

Bill McKillop · From: Glasgow, Scotland

I have played with my current band for around 13 years. I play with a good bunch of guys who are always up for a laugh and never take anything too seriously. We did have a guitarist who wanted to bring his girlfriend with him to all of our gigs but he also wanted the band to pay for her. This was a real drag at the time and was causing tension. He also was one of those guys who couldn't lay back and wanted to play over the top of everyone. He would play his solo then he would want to play on yours too. We soon got shot of him. Since then, the personel who have came into the band have all fitted in because we like to have a laugh. There are also no superstars in the band. I think that has been a recipe for success. We only play weekends though so I don't know what it would be like being on the road with a bunch of guys.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Isn't it just one step above prostitution if you take money for your wares and actually have no feelings about doing so?

I've played in some bands where one or more of the musicians were seriously lacking in the areas discussed elsewhere in this post.
There is a tolerable level, but once they've crossed that thin gray line, it's time to move on whether you have another band you can mate with or not.

Miserable music...........is not pleasant.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Thats right Bill, keep it fun, have a few laughs..no superstars. Thats the worst...."I wanna be on MTV!"..."we need to change our look"...."I wanna do a drum solo"

-you are in the wrong band....goodbye.

I guess if you are a hired gun you put up with whatever hand you are dealt. Thats not what i play music for tho, (no offense to anyone whos in it for the $). Ive managed to barely break even....I count myself as fortunate for that much.

Bryan Bradfield · From: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada.

Ray Montee said it for me. "There is a tolerable level, but once they've crossed that thin gray line, it's time to move on whether you have another band you can mate with or not."
The dilemma is, once the line is crossed, when can you move on? I've experienced this situation a couple of times, and it has been in the middle of outstanding committments (bookings). I may be a bit lacking in spine, but in both cases I put up with the crap until the upcoming committments were fulfilled, and only then let the musicians go.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

Holy Moly, Bob! I've been in that situation more times than I want to remember and I'm sure more times than anyone here would want to read!

Chris Erbacher · From: Sausalito, California, USA

just getting to the meat of an uncomfortable band situation right now, not fun, especially when the guy is your housemate. long story short, fundamental judgements and assumptions about the guy's musical background and philosophy about music will ruin an otherwise good situation. when we are playing music it is good, when we talk about music, very tense, i'm on my way out, just haven't given the notice just yet. this thing is no fun, especially when you invest pretty much all your time and effort outside of your day job into making it happen. when things are not equal and when people lose respect for another person's ideas based soley upon judgements not relating to music, things go awry, especially when the vibe of the music is agreed by both parties to be more than satisfactory.

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

I think it simply boils down to "how important is the job and/or money to you".
Very few individuals are completely happy with their job. That's why they call it "work".
btw, Bob, I haven't talked with you for a while. I hope you are doing okay.... Now, GET TO WORK, you slave .... hahaha........JD

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www.phelpscountychoppers.com/steelguitar

Hook Moore · From: South Charleston,West Virginia

As John says, plus life is too short.
Hook

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www.HookMoore.com

Jack Francis · From: Queen Creek, Arizona, USA

I was in the "ROADHOUSE KINGS" for 10 years,
a really good classic rock band that also could pull off a classic country gig when needed..everyone in the band got a long great. We even had a lunch together once a month.

One of the guys decided that it would be cool to bring in his daughter to HELP sing.

All 5 guys sing and cover "Eagles, Doobies, Skynard etc., pretty well, so I told them that a 26 year old singing Shania songs didn't fit into what we do...I still think that your better off playing to your peers
and todays "WEENIE" country wasn't a fit..they thought otherwise so I left.

They've tried to get me back a few times but I"m working a duo with a guy that believes in the the same music and we're having a great time...we have been auditioning base players and drummers but nothing yet.

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Of course. I don't personally know one serious musician who hasn't been quite unhappy with a gig, at some point or other. The issue for me is whether 1)the problems are temporary can be resolved, or 2) the situation is a basket case. For me, it takes a lot of money to overlook fundamental problems with the music or serious band personality problems, and even then, I won't deal with that for long. Hook's right, life is much too short, and there are other reasonable ways to make money.

Sidney Ralph Penton · From: Moberly, Missouri, USA

well i play my psg by myself that way there is no one to argue with etc. but then again i have no one to blame things on either. i play gospel music in churches and speak. i usually dono't accept anything more than gas money if that and it is very rewarding and satisfying. i have known some bands that always had arguing going on etc that makes a gig a dreadful thing to go to. i always said if you can't laugh in life you have serious problems. i always have something to laugh about. doc

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zum SD10 peavy vegas 400 peavy session 400 steelseats they are great at sales@steelseats.com
if its not a zum steel it isn't real
just trying to steel for the Lord>

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Been there.
Usually if it's THAT bad,
I finish professional engagments,
and move on.

I have left once or twice immediately, and with no regrets
Some BS is WAY to far to tolerate,
and if they are like that,
well it doesn't affect my pro scruples to walk on low lifes,
they ain't pro anyway.
Violence and abuse of the ladies, especially MINE, fit this grouping.

Besides they aren't going anywhere fast if their like that.

But in general finish the agreed gigs unless the powers that be say you have a pass to leave early.
Or you provided a sub they accept.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Well, a couple of things:

Demanding that fellow band members make your gigs "fun" for you is a little unrealistic, and I think asking a bit much in most situations. I resent the most band members that threaten to quit when "we aren't making it fun enough for them".

Trying to find the players that are most like you and give you inspiration, support, and don't get so drunk they fall on your guitar is a challenge that needs constant work, and a willingness to look for other players and bands constantly, even if it means that they'll only be around you for a finite period. There are very few "marriages" in music.

Putting up with totally worthless musicians for a short time is not harmful. Playing with them for so long a time that you don't realise that you've become like them is final failure. So is giving up and staying home taking shots at other musicians that are always out trying new things no matter how you personally think they "sound".

It is a Craft. Not a "Happiness". Not a "Religion", not a "Joke" and definitely not a "Gold Mine".

Many of us, for various reasons "have to" go out and play, regardless of the uneasiness and discomfort often experienced.

To me "being able to do it" is as important, if not moreso than "what I do".

I guess you have to first, have the will to do it, second, know when situatinos are "flowering" and deteriorating, and somewhere in there realising your own motivations.

Often, my Chief Motivation is Spite.

Eagle Creek Inn this weekend with Oh Brother, Jubitz next weekend with Monty Moss and the Broken Record Band, a Weekend at the Safari Club and three weekends at the Vancouver Moose, etc, etc, etc.....

EJL

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

It's a lot easier to deal with if you aren't trying to make money at it.

Consider the dreaded day job. At work, you often have to put up with bozos that you'd never, ever associate with socially. You might have a cubicle next to the loudest jerk you've ever met, or you might have to wait on a product delivery from a total slacker, and then cover his ass so that the whole department doesn't look bad.

I think that the same thing often happens in commercially-oriented bands. The important thing is keeping the club owner and the audience happy. Keeping the musicians happy is not a priority. It's a job. If you're good at it, your personal feelings about the band won't visibly affect your performance.

When you reach the point where you're playing for the art of it or for your own pleasure, that's when the personalities of your bandmates becomes an interesting dynamic. If there's no musical chemistry between the players, I have no reason to be there. Nowadays, I'd rather be home practicing scales alone than playing on stage with a miserable band.

There are some people I will never play with again. It was good at the time, for the money, but there's no point in putting up with them today.

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Leslie Ehrlich · From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

I hate playing with people who have big egos who always have to have their way and think they know what they're doing. I've quit a couple bands because of such people. They take all the fun out of playing music.

Mac Martine · From: Portland, Or

It's all been said, but this is supposed to be fun (at least most of the time). If other people are making it not so fun then get into a different situation. Don't forget, you're in high demand

Simply owning a pedal steel puts you in high demand

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

Good points, but some of them depend on the goals of the player... I don't think it's really a great sin for part-time weekend players to want to have a little fun while they're playing.

On the other hand, in a professional situation I agree with Eric that you were likely not hired to join in the party, you were hired to do a job. If you can have fun too, that's great. If not, you do your job, and of course there are still limits as to what you should put up with as in any job. Abusive situations should never be tolerated, but if you're in desperate need of money, then it's up to you to take it or leave it.

If anyone's still reading this by now, I'll tell you a true story about how bad it can be and you tell me if it should be tolerated or not.

If you don't like stories or long posts, skip right on ahead to the next one. No problem.

In '78-'79 I played PSG with a road band that seemed like a good, reputable band, until you got to know them better.

The fiddle player was a great player and great guy, no problems there.

They needed a new drummer so I recommended and they hired one of my best buddies on drums, no problem with him either.

The lead singer/bandleader and his bass player brother were another story.

Their public faces were a lot different than their private faces. They were slick dressers and acted very polished and polite in public. In private they were foul-mouthed and often made extremely vulgar jokes about women, including the ones they "dated". They were first-class a-holes all the way around.

When we joined the band they told us (the drummer and I), "anytime you need to go anywhere, just say the word and we'll throw you the keys to the RV".

Never happened, not once. They always had an excuse for why we couldn't use it and why they couldn't give us a lift. We could see that was just BS so we walked from our rooms to anywhere we needed to go during the day when not playing or traveling.

When I joined they gave me the band outfits of the previous guitarist who was pretty much the same size as me. I noticed immediately that the shirts reeked of B.O. and repeated dry-cleaning wouldn't get it out. I had to wear them anyway and I hated that.

We were in Nashville during the grand opening of Faron Young's Celebrity Ballroom. The brothers knew Mr. Young, claimed he was a friend and indeed did seem to know several big Nashville people. We were all invited to the private grand-opening party. The drummer and I decided to walk down to Broadway during the day and the brothers were going to pick us up in the RV in time to go back to the room, get cleaned up and dressed nice for the party.

They never showed up, leaving us to walk all the way back to our rooms where they pounced on us and said there's no time for anything except to just go as we were. Sweaty and dirty clothes. We were very embarrased as most everyone else was very well dressed. We were invited to sit in with Faron's band, the drummer and I said "forget it", as people were already giving us strange enough looks just for being there, plus we were pretty well ticked off about the whole thing anyway.

It went more downhill all the time, they didn't seem to have any respect for the drummer and me, and probably because we didn't really like them personally too much either therefore didn't join-in with their crap, I suppose that might have made a bigger wall, but it went way beyond that.

I finally had enough of them and gave them 2 weeks notice. They asked if I could stay 6 weeks in order to do certain important gigs with them, I said OK. We were backing up "package shows" with many big Nashville stars.

I did my 6 weeks and left. Later, talking with my friend the drummer (who also later quit) he told me some things going on behind my back that I didn't know about.

They were cornering the drummer and talking about the smelly shirts and saying that I must never take showers. Of course I did, as I told you these shirts stunk when they gave them to me, I don't know how they could've missed it. The previous guy must've sweated like crazy.

In addition to badmouthing me to my old friend about the smelly shirts and blaming me, they were telling him that I must be on drugs, drugs make a person's sweat smell really bad, and that would explain too for my "moods" and runny nose. I have had untreatable allergies for years, been to the best specialists, but now they're telling my best friend (and who knows who else) they think I'm a druggie. FYI I didn't use ANY drugs except over-the-counter antihistimines, didn't even drink at the time.

They tried to get the drummer to somehow get into my room and search my room and suitcases for drugs. I asked him, "well did you?" He said, "of course not, but I told them I did and that there were no drugs".

The drummer also told me that the the bass-player brother had gotten paranoid about my fulfilling my 6-week notice that they asked me to do, and tried to convince his brother that they should just can me immediately with no notice, so that I couldn't disappear before my 6-weeks, purposely leaving them in a bad spot. I'd never even thought of doing that, and no matter how much I disliked them I'd never have done it. I guess the leader brother decided to gamble that I'd do my 6 weeks, which of course I did.

I've never had such insulting personal treatment by anyone in my 35 years of playing music and certainly did nothing to deserve it. I wouldn't play for these guys again or anyone like them for any amount of money in the world.

I have other stories of bands that were less than "fun" too, but nothing like this.

I once drove 1400 miles to join a band that got fired on our first night.

Etc. etc... playing music is full of those... and plenty of worse....still nothing like the above.

Too bad these guys actually knew some big people, I met some legendary Nashville stars through them. But these two were one big reason I decided I didn't care about being part of the Nashville Clique.

I went back to the west coast.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 13 January 2006 at 01:01 AM.]

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I have a somewhat different opinion these days, I guess because I don't need to make money from it. The very best musicians that I've known have had pretty solid ideas about how good things should sound. I'd rather put up with highly talented, if prickly, people who challenge me musically than plod along playing dreck with pleasant, mediocre "pals." Compare Cream or the first Mahavisnu Orchestra to, say, Willie Nelson's band... that harmonica player he's been dragging around with him for 40 years....

MUSICO · From: Jeremy Williams in Spain

Mahavishnu? mmmmmm A new incarnation of Mahavishnu with McLaughlin and Joe Wright.....Id accept being their ukelele player and bus driver just to be there.

It´s NEVER just one factor. It´s the mix of fun, money, duty, neccesity, learning, giving taking.

Last night I was called at 23:30 to do a gig because they´d forgotten to tell the act that was meant to be there. I went though it was only a 350 euro gig which I normally wouldn´t do...but I wasn´t doing anything else last night and I created a lot of good will with artist, management and venue.

Everyone must choose what is their own equation for breaking even.

distance*V+time*W+money*X+fun*Y+musicality*Z >= satisfaction level

choose your own V,W;X,Y,Z and satisfaction level.

Jeremy Williams
Barcelona Spain

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

Bobby Lee wrote

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