Steel Players and $$$

Rick Garrett · From: Tyler, Texas

Just an observation based on a few years of reading this board. Country bands don't make near enough money for moving all the equipment to a job and then playing it. I hired a harp player (the wife made me do it. I would have been perfectly happy with a plug in cassette player) for my oldest daughters wedding. This was about 6 years ago. For 3 hours work I paid that gal 500 dollars in cold hard earned cash. All she did was drag the harp in, stand it up, and proceed to play 3 hours worth of songs I've never before heard. Why do bands play for such small ammounts? Is it competition?

I'm not a professional musician. Just a closet picker and an ocasional weekend jammer but there ain't no freekin way I'd tear my steel down and load it in my truck with the rest of my gear for 50 bucks. Or even 100 for that matter. I'll load up for the excitement of getting to play with friends. This is something thats stumped me ever since I found this site so I thought today I would post about it. I'm guessing that the $$$ involved are secondary to the thrill of getting to play.

Rick

Larry King · From: Watts, Oklahoma, USA

Rick.....I might as well jump in here and get it started. Next month I turn 65...I do not play golf, don't hunt, seldom fish (have no problem with those who do) so music is my hobby and passion. I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time and have been able to do some great jobs....i.e. when I worked for Jimmie Snow, his father got us on the Opry, we did a USO tour to 'Nam in 69, I worked for two years in the Caribbean, worked a job in Singapore.....all because of this music business. While some of my buds are suffering 'burn out', I still enjoy working. Therefore, in my case, money is secondary. I've heard others say that but when you call them for a job, the first question is "how much does it pay"? On the other hand, I drove two and a half hours to work a New Years job, bought my own motel , and did not have a clue as to what the job paid until the 'eagle' flew. Sure, I'd like to make more money, but that's not the driving/compelling force. For me, getting together with my former bunch is payment enough and a few dollars is just a bonus. I don't know how it is in east Texas, but some of the Lodges have a limit to their budget and the last one we played paid $45 per man...$90 for two nights. A lot of you would not leave the house for that kind of money.....BUT....once again, it's my golf game, only I'm not paying green fees and renting golf carts. So....I guess I'm different..I view it differently. If I'm playing the kind of music I like with the guys I've grown to love, money is not the issue and takes a back seat as a priority. Therefore, I'll never break even on my equipment cost VS. dollar return...I'll take a 2K guitar, a 1K amp, toss them into a 2.5K trailer pulled by a 15K truck and I'll go work for free with my guys 'cause it's my passion. When the passion is gone, have a yard sale. Just my two cents worth.

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

In a nutshell.... A business who is paying the band, has to make more money than he pays you(profit). Small establishments can't cater to enough customers to pay a big price for a band. If you have a set price for your band, you will have to negotiate with places that can afford you. You have two functions when hired to play a club. You are expected to help draw a crowd and then keep them entertained well enough that they will stay and spend money.
If you are hired for a private party, the price is negotiable.
I have a set price for my services. If they can't afford it, they can do without. If I lower my price for one person, it is like a slap in the face for the guy who pays me more. I don't know a better way to be fair, than to charge everyone the same price.
I do play a lot of fund raising benefits for local residents who have had a catastrophy. For this, I donate my time.
By the way, I don't think I would play a wedding at any price. I can't take the chance of being charged with contributing to a conspiracy.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Larry K, I agree with you 100%. JP

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

If you are looking to playing out as an INCOME..yeh, don't load up..stay home for the $50.

If you are looking to go out and play with the band at a local place that is packed to the gills with folks dancing and having a good time, and you get to have a GREAT time along with them and at the same time play your Instrument in a real world scenario..play the stuff you have been practicing all these weeks in the closet..

well I say..

$50 ain't to shabby..

If I was in this for cash..I would have filed bandstand bankruptcy 40 years ago...

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

I remember one time back in the early 1950's a club mgr called me to work with his house band while his steel player was off sick. I asked how much it paid and he said $10 and I said no thanks. He countered by offering to pay me $12.50 if I didn't tell anyone.

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www.genejones.com

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

Like John said, a band is only worth its draw.

Marlin Smoot · From: Kansas

Try this...
If you keep hearing from the bar owner he "ain't making any money" and most of them will tell you that but, they are still in business...go to the local city goverment and look for the beer/wine/ and the hard stuff "sales" per month by night clubs. It should be public information in some states from the T.A.B. You may be surprised how much these places are making.

It may help you in trying to ask the club owners to help you with making more money.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I guess there is something I don't understand...

We are not in the business of counting a Bar owners receipts..

We accept a gig based on what is offered...

I know a guy ( Guitar) who tells me he won't go out and play for less than a hundrred...

I had a fella call him one time, he needed a player like that night..it paid $75..I was busy or I would have done it..

The guy turned him down, he wanted a hundred..

I called him the next day and asked him whats up..he said he is worth a $100 and don't have anyone call him anymore unless he gets paid $100..

I asked him how often he gigs, and he complained that there just are not enough good paying gigs so it's been a while..

I told him that he just turned down a $75 / night gig, probably 6 gigs / month..

I told him not to worry though , my friend got a player..they loved him, they gave him the gig. 6 gigs/ month average..4 piece band..

The other problem with this guy that turned down the gig..blunt..

He ain't that good...when he sat in with the bands I played with he was stepping all over the Steel parts...he had to be told..and I told him...

so basically he ain't worth a $100...

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 08 January 2006 at 09:09 AM.]

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Rick - How many harpists are there in Tyler? Does this lady have any competition?

If she has little or no competition, it sounds like a simple matter of supply and demand.

Lee, from South Texas

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I guess it's a sign of my age, but it's the sorriest thing I think I've seen.

There are bands here that actually pay club owners to play.

I took a couple "door money" gigs where as a surprise, another 9 piece band was in the lineup to help split an otherwise decent "door split" and ended up going home with thirty bucks. One more "opener" for thirty bucks and I'll never do it again. Never.

Out of probably three thousand gigs, other than Shriners' MDA, Dead Friends' benefits, and those two sorry gigs, I've never worked for less than 50 bucks.

I'd sooner give my money to a freeway panhandler than a band with a "tip jar".

The better players that do it, the sorrier it is.

What's even sorrier is a musician saying that a particular band "isn't worth the money" they are getting.

Low self image. Especially when it's a "good player" involved.

I have not yet seen or read all the rationalizations for panhandling, but I 'reckon there'll be some new ones here directly....

EJL

pdl20 · From: Benton, Ar . USA,

Here's my 2 cents.i was once a road musician for an Opry act.we made 75.00 a day if we played otherwise nothing when travling to the next gig.i was gone 5 days to England and worked 1 day .BINGO,75.00 smackolas.I got raises along the way and worked almost 5 years on the road.money verses time spent you will make about 1.50 to 3.00 per hr.depending what part of the country you live in or work in. I had fists full of money working all the county fair shows in the summer and lived on food stamps in the winter slow club date time's . i now play a senior adult dance club every saturday night and make 75.00. $50 for the gig and $25 for gas as i drive 130 miles round trip.i do it for practice to keep my chops up and play new idea's i learned during the week.i also do some session studio work.the most money i ever made was working a day job and playing every fri and sat nite.all of my equipment has been paid for by my music money,my advise is to get or keep the day job and enjoy picking the weekends and above all enjoy your family if you are married.that can be a cost if you are gone all the time.the money isnt there ,never was .music is like a drug,we are hooked and sometimes will bet it all to do it. We get paid to set up and load up ,we play for nothing.MHOP

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

As long as there are bands that will play for free.. there will be club owners that will exploit them. That's why there is a musicians union.
I will never pay a cover for a DJ, and I was one.. a damn good one too, radio and clubs.
I will always pay a cover to hear a live band, good or not. I may not come back if they are not good. I may not go at all if there is no steel.
A club get 52 weeks to make money, if they have one bad band it may affect more than that week. I worked top rock clubs in this area back in the 70's where you had to be union and a union rep was there to make sure they got their money. We had an agent who got his too.. we still made real good money. When I started to work on steel in local country clubs I got $50-60 a nite, way less than the rock rooms. During the Urban Cowboy days we worked full-time 4-6 nites a week from Maine to Atlanta $1500- 3000 a week. Minimum of $75 a nite plus rooms if we were on the road.
When I was asked to take less than $50 per man for the 5 piece band playing a local club, I turned them down and there was always another group that would do it for the $50 or less.. Bands that cut the going rate..ruin it for everyone else and themselves by selling themselves short.
I was asked to open for Conway, Mel Tillis, and others at the Pitman Theater in NJ , they wanted us for free..told me we would get great exposure...I told them I could drop my jeans outside on Broad Street and get more exposure. If you want to be paid like a pro.. act like one.
I agree with PDL20, I always thought I got paid for hauling my gear and getting home at 3am.. I always played for free.
I will go out now and sit in with a band that is getting paid, just for fun.. but it is my call. I am open to a hooking up with a band but I would expect to be making more than I did 10 years ago.
Enuf of my rambling on.. I need to practice my harmonics!

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

Gene .. you just crack me up !!!

BTW.. not to be too mercenary...but ,
If I have a GOOD band...and the local club owner wants me to work for the door with a guarantee of the minimum..for the band say $60 per man, and his joint draws every week because he knows how to book bands... i would do that faster than a newyorkminute just to prove a point.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Well Mr Tupperware Twanger, If you're referring to Moi...

I'm having a hard time sitting straight from laughing, but I'm trying to find a new reason to justify begging for money in a public establishment in your post.

If I would come close to putting money into one of those tin cups it would be for a band or act that sucks. At least they are playing closer to their wage scale.

Any distortion is due to inadequate amplification, and mostly intentional nowadays.

Looks like I beat you to Crumugeonry Donny...

EJL

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Since the pay is so low and this really is just a hobby for most of us, you might as well just play the gigs you like and give up on the rest. That way you can play the notes YOU want to play, and depend on a day job to make ends meet. Maybe this will end up being like bluegrass where the majority of activity is at conventions and jamborees and in our homes mostly. In the best of times (2 good paying gigs a week) it was still not worth the pay if you figure in gas mileage, car wear and tear, string cost, all other equipment costs, total time involved from leaving home to arriving back not to mention an occasional practice and lots of woodshedding. It HAS to FUN or it's no longer worth it, especially since pay for live bands, on the average, is so low.

Greg

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Honestly I did Donny, but I was laughing pretty hard when I posted the reply. I' only been seriously back to "spankin the plank" for six months, ater way too many years away from it, and I have to go above 400 watts of headroom to get any distortion intentionally.

I remember very well how early steel players used distortion of the low powered amps to "smooth out" the sound.

I am a Hendrix fan, Annointed in the Order of Blue Microdot, and honestly I can name as many tunes when he didn't distort his guitar. Oh well. TEHO.

I don't know if speaking one's mind is necessarily "Honesty". That's taking a little indulgence I'd think.

You seem to have a pretty good handle on things.

EJL

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

oops--double post

[This message was edited by John Macy on 08 January 2006 at 06:56 PM.]

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

"Annointed in the Order of Blue Microdot"

That marched in the "Orange Sunshine" ?

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

Sidney Ralph Penton · From: Moberly, Missouri, USA

you guys crack me up. i'll tell ya what i do. i play my psg in churches. i don't do bars for personal reasons. i have my own pa system and i set up on the main stage and when i finished playing a few songs i speak of God, how good he is, what he has done & what he can do for everyone. my psg is responcable to getting people to church that usually don't go. people are courius about it "What is a Psg?" etc. my pay well they usually just take up a love offering for me. it would amount from $200 to $800 a day. well what i do is i take enough out to cover gas etc and give the rest back to the church. so i get paid nothing for setting up and i get less for playing. but you know it makes me feel good deep down inside when i am playing and someone will start singing and before you know it most of em are singing. giving praise and glory to God. after i play my psg i speak from God's word. if i got paid $10,000 it wouldn't be as rewarding as the reward i get not to mention of how good it feels. now you guys that are getting paid well i understand what your saying and i feel that if your choice is to play in a bar that you should get at least $100 per man per night + expencies. i don't know what they charge for drinks any more but if say it was $2.50 and they get 32 shots of whiskey in a bottle thats $80 bucks for a bottle that cost what about 10 max. and when i went to the bars etc a place that had a band would usually have at least 150 people in ther if they all drank only 3 drinds each it would be thats over $1100 a night. and you know they sell more than 3 drinks per person. they can afford to pay the band well but they choose not to because it takes money out of the proffit. greed is the key to the bar owners. what i do is very refreshing and good for the soul. God bless all of you. doc

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Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

Jam sessions with other steel players and friends sometimes is fine just for fun. Playing community centers with whoever walks in with a guitar for free is even ok, sometimes. Working clubs is for pay only! No less than 100.00 a night. No questions. Special parties and events are usually 200.00 a night per band member. Club owners and people that manage clubs have a band in there to bring in a crowd and make money. A five piece band usually cost a club 500.00 a night in the areas I play in. If a club can't pay 500.00 a night off of the door and bar, then they don't need a band, they probably need a DJ. Guitars,amps,etc. cost money. Playing in clubs is a business. If a club owner wants quality musicians, then they'll pay for quality. If they s---, then they can drag it in and run off there business. I learned many years ago to set standards for working in the clubs and stick to them. That way, I seldom have to buy vaseline!

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