steel courses

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 6 Jan 2006 10:03 am

no sir mr. Burton i will not accept that its a fact of life .
the steel guitar is for the most part a machine and we just need better operating instructions. with all the information that is available it becomes a problem of where to put which peice of information.
it this disorgainzation of information that prevents 90% of those that have the dicication from learning , we have to spend far to much time sifting thru information and hoping we put it in the right place.
i just got off the phone with Bill Phillips , a retired educator and he will be reading this thread in and effort to shed aome expert light on this subject , this will at least give us an objective opinion, his credintals as an educator are beyond question .
i am disappointed that so many here seem to be oppoesed to the idea of coming togather in and effort to help the new players just coming to our beloved instrument [This message was edited by Calvin Walley on 06 January 2006 at 10:04 AM.][This message was edited by Calvin Walley on 06 January 2006 at 10:05 AM.]

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 6 Jan 2006 10:54 am

This would be a geat time for a message from Maurice Anderson. His perspective is always so insightful. I'm lost, I've been reading this forum for 10 months and I see the exact opposite of what Calvin sees. I bet half the entire posts on this website are gracious attempts by experienced players to help ease the growing pains of the new players. Perhaps the dawn of the "information age" has led younger folks to believe this all should be much easier than it is? Information is a good thing, but so is gumption and personal accountability. My $.02.

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Daryl Stogner · Post by **Daryl Stogner** » 6 Jan 2006 11:01 am

I've garnered alot of good advice from this thread and want to thank everyone for having their say.

I can understand Calvin's concern for having a dedicated basic method of teaching folks to play PSG.

To get basic canned instruction I am afraid we'd end up with a bunch of folks that can play basic PSG, but have no heart in their playing.

Like a young piano player who can only read music, but not hear the music and cannot play simple background fills or deviate from the sheet music.

Music students need to learn basic elements of any instrument to get started, but they have to be able to hear and feel music as well.

A good example of feeling a song is what one expects from a studio musician playing a brand new song and knowing what it needs from his or her instrument.

Without that, we have the basic instrument with no imagination involved. The song and singer are very important to the song, but the musicians involved are a major part of the songs signature or hook.

I am just a picker and very new at learning PSG, but when I practice I play from the heart, and think of how other steeler's might play a song. From that I learn, and I become me as a steel player. Albeit not so good yet, but one day maybe so.

Everyone at all levels have something to offer. It's up to each of us to decide what we want to absorb and use in our own styles of playing. Musicianship has it's basic forms and theories, but one must develope his or her own style that fits.

You all are better pickers than I am, but I believe music comes from the heart, deep inside where the songs come from.

We all must know formula song writers somewhere, lot's of songs are around from these guys. But when one comes from the heart, who doesn't know the feeling we get inside when it touches us?

So after all of this rambling, all I can say is we all have to learn the basics of the instrument, but it's up to each of us in how we apply and build on those things. Listen, watch and learn from anyone and everyone.

[This message was edited by Daryl Stogner on 06 January 2006 at 11:04 AM.]

Tom Diemer · Post by **Tom Diemer** » 6 Jan 2006 11:43 am

I'm a fairly new player too, consider myself a newbie, but I know the steel guitar is more than a machine. It's an extention of the human body. It's more than knowing where the notes are, much much more. It's a careful balance of taste, heart, touch, feel, style, overcoming bad habits, working within limitations, repeating things until they are automatic, etc. To say it's a challenge is an understatement. It takes a committment few other instruments require. Probably a very small percent can be taught. The rest has to be learned.

If a teacher told me "put the bar right over the fret" to play a note, would I be in tune with other instuments? Probably not. I have to use my ears to play in tune. Putting the bar over the fret is only one part of the answer, the part a teacher can teach. The rest is up to me. With all due respect, that's the difference you seem to be missing Calvin. Some people adapt easily to it, others, like me, will struggle.

I've purchased quite a few instruction tapes, take something good away from all of them. I will agree, some of the methods used didn't help me, but maybe they will someone else. I don't like the ones where they play a lick, then spend minutes explaining how they did it. Most of those licks require speed I don't have, and if I was good enough to have the speed, I probably wouldn't need the lick. They taught just that lick, stepped through the movements, didn't explain the music behind why they played it.

Ricky Davis taught me how to get it in tune (on this forum). Bruce's tape helped me more than any when I started. Joe's helped me break out of some of my bad habits. Some of the other tapes and methods added other useful things.

Steel instruction isn't the only instrument with the teaching problem on tapes either. If you think so, pick up Brent Mason's hot licks instruction tape. Humans can not do what he tries to teach on that tape.

Personally, I know it will take me the rest of my life to learn steel, and I will never reach where I want to be as a player, but rather will be a work in progress for as long as I play it. But what fun (and yes, frustration) along the way. This forum is the ultimate steel teaching machine. When the likes of Buddy, Paul, Bruce, Bobbe, all the teachers, etc come here to share information, and freely discuss and explain things to us new players. I for one really appreciate it.

I do think you have to really love the steel guitar to have the mustard inside to do what it takes to learn it.
[This message was edited by Tom Diemer on 06 January 2006 at 11:47 AM.]

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 6 Jan 2006 11:58 am

"the steel guitar is for the most part a machine and we just need better operating instructions"

-No, its not just a machine..if it were we could train robots to operate them. Its more like a paintbrush..I can show you how to hold the brush, how to make brushstrokes, even some fancy techniques for acheiving certain strokes...but I can never teach you how to paint an interesting painting.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Jan 2006 12:08 pm

Tom, what an excellent response..well said my friend..

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 06 January 2006 at 01:15 PM.]

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 6 Jan 2006 1:51 pm

Tony
i did go back and reread your post on page 1
and to be honest i truly belive you are a fine teacher , your last sentence is a lot of what i am trying to get at, pratice alone is not the answer, we as student MUST know what to pratice and in some order, we all need a bass line from which to work from and from there we can get creative .
now i will try to answer your questions about my own limited ability. i do know the note's with the bar on the frets both with and without pedals for axample : no pedals 3rd fret is G both pedals Throws it into a C and so forth but when you start transposing it into numbers yea i'm lost
i will be the first to admit that i seem to be missing the key to unlocking my understanding of this...
but the whole point of this thread is to point out that i am not alone in these deficencys and that there are many students that are struggling without voicing the frustrations of being able to find the correct order of information...
this forum had been nothing short of great at answering the newbees questions, but many times the sequence of information seems disconnected or beyond a beginers ablilty to comprehend and know where to make the best use of it.
to me it doesn't make a hill of beans if the end result is to play country , jazz, or rock .we all need a good understanding of HOW TO LEARN the basics

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 6 Jan 2006 3:26 pm

Calvin, I assume you were first motivated to take up steel guitar after hearing the soulful, deep, emotional playing of the "past masters".
You probably realize they managed to learn to play in spite of this "disorganized pile" of teaching materials, in fact most of the greats had far less material to draw from than we do today. It would seem that a good deal of the charachter of "style" would be the differences in the individual pathways taken to achieve proficiency.

Having taught steel and guitar for many years, using much the same methodology from student to student, I've had some who quickly surpassed my own abilities and have gone on to national prominence. I still see others bagging groceries, who just never got beyond very simplistic playing, (and still enjoy it I hope). Trust me, the methodology is not the difference here.

As far as practice time, I was fortunate enough to join a band the same day I got my first steel. I was putting in 8-10 hours daily, playing eveything in the Winston book, some old Sho-Bud tab, copying records, trading licks with friends, etc., and still not making very good progress.
When I curtailed my practice time, and just worked on a few concepts and licks, and then shoehorned them into every song I could at the gigs, my playing really took off. For me, concentration and application of a few ideas at a time, and studying the theoretical "why" of those ideas, was what worked.

One of the things no book or course can teach is how to know just where our own musical shortcomings are, and what to study to correct that. For instance, if a band I'm playing with is using chords I don't know, I know I have to find a chord book for guitar or piano, study the applications and substitutions and figure out how to apply that to steel. There's just no "advanced chord concepts for E9" course around.

In your case I notice

but when you start transposing it into numbers yea i'm lost

So obviously you have heard others refer to use of the number system, and you know you don't know a lot about it. That should be a beacon toward something you can study, and believe me, until you get into it, you won't understand just how much it will do for your overall playing skills. Really.
A good place to start is one of the books such as "The Nashville Number system" by Chas Williams.
The course I'm working on uses the number system as the foundation for learning both the E9 neck and about music in general. It's been the cornerstone of my teaching for many years, because it's also the foundation of my understanding, and a true shortcut to understanding much of the mystery of playing any kind of music.

The number system is the real deal!
Best wishes!

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 6 Jan 2006 4:05 pm

Very well said Mark. I also found working on one intriguing idea at a time, over time has been the greatest benefit. And not all from other steel players. For years I enjoyed Benny Goodman's clarinet playing, but never thought much about it. One time I was listening to an old LP of his and it hit me... many time to start a lead, he would kinda "set the beat", by hitting high, low, high, low, high, low octaves, 2 or 3 times (like "one"- "two", "one"-"two")and then take off on the last time... this one realization changed my playing style completly... point is, Rome was not built in a day, and do it for love, not recognition, all will be revealed in time. Thanks for insight Mark.

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 6 Jan 2006 4:48 pm

Calvin,
I've been playing at this thing for nearly 10 yrs, and even though I play out on a regular basis with our band and others, I'm one of those basic players Mark v.A. spoke of, but that's ok, I enjoy it, and know I'll never be a fantastic "hot player". I truly believe Mark is right about working more on learning the number system, I was quite familiar with it prior to taking up steel, and it really helped me, I'd be lost without it!
I went through the same thing as you with some course material, and some of it was really confusing for me, I had no computer with a link to this great forum, and very, very few steel players around to talk to, or ask questions. I talked to everyone I could, went and saw as many shows with steelers that I could, but most of all I didn't give up!! Hang in there friend, it'll fall into place for you!
Larry

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Emmons S/D-10, 3/5, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Lawrence Sullivan · Post by **Lawrence Sullivan** » 6 Jan 2006 5:08 pm

This whole post has been an interesting read with all the comments and different ideas about learning Every player had to learn by some method but different approaches have been needed by a lot of them
I have had my steel for a couple years and my playing still sounds like two alley cats fighting but I'm still trying
I am no authority on learning this instrument, but I think you have to first be able to "Hear The Music" then an instructor can teach you how those sounds can be made I think you will never be able to play it until you can hear it first.

My hats off to Bill Mayville, he goes that extra mile to help in any way he can, I consider myself very fortunate to have him as a friend
Good luck to all in mastering this instrument
Larry

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 6 Jan 2006 5:08 pm

Calvin - As a newbie on steel but a long-time musician I really don't understand how you can be asking for what you want, even after reading every post.

There is no way to standardize teaching of an instrument that is played in so many different styles, with so many different tunings, and so many different copedents.

Without there being a standard *instrument*, how can you expect standard *teaching*?

Is your ideal standard going to suit a jazz player? How about a rock guy? Blues? Country? What TYPE of country?

I'v asked in the past for updated instructional materials and been raked over the coals for it, but current materials don't encompass varying styles, even with in the basic E9 and C6 setups (not to hijack the thread and reopen that debate...just a comment). To my mind, "standardized" teaching would go completely the opposite direction, forcing all students to learn ONE method only, one style only, one setup only....

...the idea is totally unsuitable to the instrument.

You need to find an instructor who will teach you the basics and then what YOU want to learn in whatever setup you use. In this whole thread I still haven't seen anything about WHAT you want to learn (or what you attempt to play), only complaints that things aren't "standardized".

What ARE your standards????

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 6 Jan 2006 7:51 pm

it this disorgainzation of information that prevents 90% of those that have the dicication from learning , we have to spend far to much time sifting thru information and hoping we put it in the right place.

You mean, like most of the rest of us did.

It seems you want a quick mastery of the instrument. Ain't gonna happen dude. Even with a teacher. It's going to take a lot of work on your part (which you seem willing to put out), but it's not going to be handed to you on a silver platter.

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Carter D10 9p/9k, NV400, Korg Triton Le88 Synth, Korg CX-3 organ, Yamaha Motif Rack Module, Regal Dobro, Tele, Gretsch Acoustic.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 6 Jan 2006 8:12 pm

for the life of me i don't understand why this has focused on me . ...yes i have my problems to deal with, but i started this to voice a problem that i think effects all students at many differant levels... give me break i am a long way from where i want to be, but i can play a few things. some even pretty well... by the way i do use the newman tuning. the tuning issue was just a passing observation

L. A. Wunder · Post by **L. A. Wunder** » 6 Jan 2006 8:28 pm

Tony Prior,

I agree with what you've said. A knowledge of music is important for any instrument, including steel. I've never thought of using the "A" pedal to make the relative minor on strings 6,5, and 4. I've always used pedals B & C in the "pedals-down" position for the open chord. ( fret 10, vs fret 3) Thanks for pointing out a much more practical alternative.
Concerning the "standardization" of steel courses, I'd like to see them all have:
1. Bar lines separating the measures
2. A key signature
3. A time signature
4. If possible, a metronome marking

On the first page of the course, there could be an explaination of what the above items mean, along with the usual "How to read the tab" instructions. This would get even the newest players more used to understanding music in general, and would help players of other instruments to relate their musical knowledge to the steel.

L.A.

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 6 Jan 2006 9:20 pm

I have only been playing steel for 4 months. One thing I can say is, I have found a couple of VERY structured courses that have helped me greatly. Courses that explain scales and chords and explain the grips, why they work, what inversion they represent and so on and so on. I have read a few threads where people have said things like "well, I got through part of Winnies book, but then he wanted me to play Red River Valley." I don't normally comment on things like that, but in all honesty, if you studied the scales that he taught leading up to Red River Valley, and all you learned was Red River Valley, your not doing well as student. You should have learned the scale positions, the intervals, and the chord fragments represented by the exercise, the physical execution of the movements and how to manipulate them to form voicings called music. The truth is, steel is nothing but a musical instrument, and like any other instrument, you have to learn the chords and the scales and where they can be found. I found Winnie's book pretty much starts out with "this is a steel guitar, here is how you set it up to play it" and then goes from there. I am not to sure what more one could ask for. Jeff Newman’s courses are pretty simplistic with VERY important basic knowledge that is needed to progress. Herby Wallace has a course that almost begins with explaining what a steel guitar is and moves from there. It’s very structured and has a ton of information in it.
As far as standardization is concerned, that will never happen. I realized in college, there are going be professors that will throw information at you and what you catch, you can keep. Then there are some that will deliver the information in such a way as to make you want more. A good teacher is one that can take a complicated subject, such as my Oil and Gas Law class, and make it understandable. In my opinion, that is what Winnie Winston, Herby Wallace and Jeff Newman have done. In fact, I don't think that Winnie's book could have started from a more appropriate starting point.
I further believe that part of the problem is not a lack of teaching materials, but the abundance thereof. There is so much stuff available, it's hard to decided where to start and what to use. This means one has to exercise some self-discipline and pick one course and stay with it. I bought 3 and decided to stick with Jeff Newman for while. In doing so, I have also bought some tabs from Don Sulesky and Herb Steiner. Guess what I found in those tabs? The same scales, the same chords and the same grips that Winnie and Jeff both teach. The difference is simply the order in which they are played.
Having learned that lesson, I can see the importance of learning the chords and scales and how to find them using the various pedals and levers on my guitar. In my opinion, Jeff Newman does this best, but only because I like the visual aids, because Winnie teaches the same thing, you just have to read it instead of watch it. I really think there is ample information out there for one to learn; at least at the end of 4 months my attitude is still very positive that I will be able play. In fact, I played in the steel guitar chat room for guys like Bobby Bowman and Randy Beavers and was pleased at the reviews, both positive and negative ones. If you really want structure in your learning, then you can create it. The basic understanding is, you need to play chords and scales, just find a method that teaches that in a way you can understand it because you will rarely find 2 teachers that are going to do it the same.
Calvin, you emailed about this. In your email you stated, “I watched some of Jeff Newman’s video at Bobby Bowman’s house and it went over my head pretty fast.” I am sure it did, it was designed for you play along and learn in segments. It was meant for you to watch him play the first 3 or 4 scale degrees and then you turn off the tape and play them yourself until you master that part. THEN and only then, you move to the next one, which builds off the first one. Then you move on to the third one and so on. Then when you have finished that, he will demonstrate how to put all the little segments, that you should fully understand, together to form a scale that covers most of the fret board. Actually, all of the fret board, once you understand that it all begins again at the twelfth fret. Then, he will show you how take that scale and apply it to music. It’s a building block system that takes time to go through and should be done, as he states in the book, a little at a time. In fact, on the tape he says “now don’t move on until you can play this backwards and forwards, now turn off the tape, it’s your turn.” I assure you if I tried to watch that couple of hours of tape without doing the exercises before moving on, it would be WAY over my head pretty darn fast as well. Honestly, I think the basics are the same for any instrument, you know what to learn, so go learn it……..James

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 6 Jan 2006 10:03 pm

well one thing i have learned here is that; you can't get 3 people to agree that you will get wet standing in a hurricane

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 6 Jan 2006 11:03 pm

Mark van Allen said: "It would seem that a good deal of the charachter of "style" would be the differences in the individual pathways taken to achieve proficiency."

I think that's a really good point.

Calvin Walley said: "well one thing i have learned here is that; you can't get 3 people to agree that you will get wet standing in a hurricane"

Which is sort of the point, isn't it?

There are two different concerns, here, as I see it. The first is the idea of having a standardised set of course material for home study, and the second is having a set of standard practises that teachers would employ in person. I think the first already exists (insofar as the basic technical aspects of steel playing can be standardised), and I think the second is something that teachers develop individually over time based on their experience. A teacher might have a whole set of "standard" approaches depending on what the student wants to learn and every teacher will do it a little differently (they'll play to their strengths).

It seems to me like anybody who is having difficulty with their home study materials would do well to seek an experienced teacher who can figure out exactly what they need.

-Travis

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 6 Jan 2006 11:10 pm

what would happen if every history teacher in America taught history in any manor they saw fit??? i'll tell you what would happen...about 1/2 the country would think the Romans won the civil war

Mac Martine · Post by **Mac Martine** » 6 Jan 2006 11:44 pm

History is a science. Music is an art.
History is factual. Music is creative.

There is some science to the workings of a pedal steel, and understanding it, but you can get that from any music theory book. Playing is is an art.
It's been mentioned here several times, but if you view pedal steel strictly scientifically it would be incredibly boring and everyone would play the same. You could create a machine to play it just as well.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 7 Jan 2006 12:42 am

This is a great post, especially for an oldie newbie like me.

Steelers showing off? Not in my experience. I've found that generally it's the 6 stringers who are more narcissistic and arrogant, although Byrd's rant on Bobbe's site suggests otherwise.

My guess is that a lot of newbies need visuals because trying to figure it out by reading about it or even just hearing it leads to misconceptions and also takes longer than somebody showing you. Vids/DVDs are where I think Bobbe, Bruce, and Jeff stand out. And the visuals show that not all players play the same. Look at the position of Bruce's right-hand fingers and how he wears his picks. If he's the only one you ever saw, you'd think that's the way most people do it.

As all of the varying answers here indicate, there is nobody in this thread who has the perfect answer. Likewise, there is not one person who is going to be the perfect teacher. So for me, putting together the best of several teachers works better. When i first started, the materials I followed really stressed blocking. I got way too concerned with that. Bobbe broke that habit for me. And Bill's idea of learning pedals and kness by practicing without a bar was a boon for me.

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"Drinking up the future, and living down the past"--unknown singer in Phoenix

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 7 Jan 2006 1:38 am

"what would happen if every history teacher in America taught history in any manor they saw fit??? i'll tell you what would happen...about 1/2 the country would think the Romans won the civil war"

As pointed out, fact and art do not compare. In fact, for someeone who started the thread to go in such a completely irrelevant direction has me wondering what his real point is.

Calvin - I asked earlier what standards you'd like to see, and mentioned how difficult it would be to standardize lesson materials on an instrument that is used in so many different styles with so many different tunings.

You've managed to complain about things being overly complicated , badly presented, etc etc....

What exactly do you want to see? Your "machine instruction manual" isn't relevant, as all the machines are different as are the styles of music - so what, really, is it that you are looking for? Can you give 5 or 6 bullet points to clarify things?

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 7 Jan 2006 5:01 am

Pedal steel is not a "beginner's instrument". If someone is just starting to play an instrument, they'd be much better off learning the nuts and bolts of music on piano or standard guitar first. Theory is a complicated subject, and the pedal steel is not a simple instrument.

It is also a great idea to spend some time on non-pedal, to see what is available in the open tuning and WHY pedals and levers are there in the first place.

Calvin- if you know what your pedals and levers do to each string musically, and you know the language of music, you can figure the instrument out. It takes a lot of concentration and organization.

No one can do that for you. You can get Joe Wright's spreadsheets that lay out not only every note at every fret, but you can then click on any pedal and lever combination and see what the notes are at any fret. Until you get that info in your head, it won't help you.

You can go to the Chord Finder website and enter your setup and have it show you where all the voicings for those chords are. If you don't understand how and where to use them, they won't help you much.

You can buy all the tab and CDs and tracks in the world-if they stay on your shelf, they won't help you.

Some of the greatest musicians in the world, Doug Jernigan, Buddy Emmons to name two out of about 3 dozen, have made logical learning materials available specifically for pedal steel guitar. There are many ways to go about learning music, from toughing it out with records to taking a theory course and/or private lessons. Then there is the old sit-down-pick-a-tune-and-explore method. If you understand your instrument and know what to go for musically, you aren't shooting in the dark.

IMHO there are a huge range of learning materials available, some free, none overpriced from my point of view. No one "method" can cover everything, and that's as true for clarinet playing as for pedal steel.

It is a musical instrument. You pretty much to be a musician to play music on it, although I've heard a few mechanics do a fine job too

Forgive me for repeating stuff from a previous post, but it seemed to bear repeating.

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

[This message was edited by John McGann on 07 January 2006 at 05:06 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 7 Jan 2006 5:24 am

Let me first state I am not an expert..just ask my wife..

Now, given we have an Instrument with an amazing tuning and relationships of relative chords to each other..ok, I'm gonna say it..I hope you are sitting down..

Even if you know G is the open Chord at fret 3 No Pedals, and goes to a C with Pedals AB same strings, same fret..and then can muster the knowledge to state that with the same 3 strings, same fret using Pedal B and the E Lower lever is D7..even if you actually know those chords..but don't understand the relationship of each of these chords to each other.. I,IV,V,...you did not need any Steel guitar TAB program..You need some seat time with a music theory teacher ..you don't need a professor of education stating what needs to come first..that IS what comes first..ANY local Piano Teacher would be a good place to hang out for 3 or 4 weeks just going over basic scales and relationships.. Have them do it in the key of E first, then C.., F, G..etc..

I use E as a reference as that is what our basic tuning is structured on and it is easily applied. Guitars and Basses are tuned in E as well..it's common ground.

Steel Guitar programs are intended how to play Music on the Steel Guitar, but if you don't understand the language of the Music..it ain't gonna happen.

This past year I have concentrated on playing at meter, still not there yet but getting there, Speed Pickin' as it is so termed...

I a friend ( fellow player) asked me about a month or two back..how did I remember all those licks..I said..I didn't...they are not licks..

I look at what I am doing as a continuous connecting of the dots between the 1's ,4's and 5's...if you can understand what I am saying..yes there are licks and phrases..but they are what comes out of the connection of the dots in each of the relative positions, and what I have come to learn is that there ar a whole lot more positions sittin' right there in front of me that I have not even come close to uncovering..but they do pop up unexpectedly as I practice around the phrases and positions..

Unfortnately for many, they enter into this wacky Pedal world without any or with minimal music knowledge. This Instrument and tuning is developed with full relationships to each other..basically everywhere on the neck.Each Pedal phrase, Knee lever pull etc..they are all with the intention of a RELATIONSHIP with something else.

You can only get so far without a foundation..the MUSIC is the foundation...

I can guarantee this..once the foundation is understood,,the flood gates will open on this Instrument...

Way back in the earliest days I went to a Jeff Newman Seminar..someone asked..what happens when you don't know what key the band is in..as so many bands just kick off songs and don't say anything..

Jeff in his typical brilliant style responded..

"I don't care what key they are in..I slide my bar up the low E string quietly, find the note( key) that sounds correct..and then join the action"...

Now why is it ya think Jeff said that ?

Thats the key that unlocks this entire Instrument..

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 07 January 2006 at 06:14 AM.]

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 7 Jan 2006 5:34 am

Perhaps we could boil this down to one of my favorite adages:

'You can buy a monkey a Rolls-Royce, but it will never learn how to drive it '