Our Instrument / Scrap Heap of the Uncool

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 29 Dec 2005 10:58 pm

So Jim, you're saying Robert is the same level player as Franklin and Emmons??

I think Robert is very good at what he does.And it takes a lot of talent to play any style, and play it good. However, I don't know. But I've been told. That Robert is not the best player of the Sacred Players.I think he would tell you that.

Just because Robert has a record deal and does big time TV. That doesn't make him as good or better than Franklin or Emmons. He's just more popular. Who was the better singer? Elvis or Ray Price? Yet Elvis was maybe 100 times more popular.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 29 Dec 2005 11:22 pm

You're insulting the guy's talents and considering him to be a lower musical lifeform than "Guys like Paul Franklin and Buddy Emmons".

I'd say EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM (especially me) is a lower musical lifeform than both Buddy and Paul.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 29 Dec 2005 11:40 pm

I can?t even take you seriously.

I stopped taking this guy seriously when he put down Winnie's book, dismissed Curly Chalker by saying "whoever that is" and questioned my integety when I said I think it's worthwhile to to play country music as a way of learning to play the steel, even if your goal (like mine) is to play something else.

But he does have a point. Robert Randolph IS a very good player, even if his style is totally unlike the traditional E9 stuff, and he really does deserve our respect. Regardless of whether or not you care for what he does, the fact remains that he really can play very well.

To compare his style to traditional E9 country is a disservice to both styles. It's like comparing bananas to hamburgers. They're both food, but they have nothing to do with each other.

Furthermore, playing rock and blues on a steel, with or without distortion, (I use distortion a lot when I play rock) is not easier than playing country. As somebody who does both, I can tell you that if anything, blues may be a little bit harder because it's the A&B pedal licks don't really work in that context and you have to find other pockets to play out of.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 29 Dec 2005 11:59 pm

Mike,
He must be related to Dan Smoot.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 30 Dec 2005 12:21 am

dismissed Curly Chalker by saying "whoever that is"

That's all I need to know about that guy.

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 30 Dec 2005 12:23 am

"bananas to hamburgers. They're both food, but they have nothing to do with each other."

Whaaat Mike, you never had a banana burger????

( from a restaurant menu in NY):

"#3 Banana Burger - Banana Peppers & Provolone Cheese with side of Home Made Mustard $5.50"

[This message was edited by Jussi Huhtakangas on 30 December 2005 at 12:27 AM.]

Gavin Dunn · Post by **Gavin Dunn** » 30 Dec 2005 12:46 am

"This is nothing but pure racist discrimination against country music and white males. Racist propaganda."

Yowzaa....How'd that one slip by?
Watch those late night e-mails boys.

Or; Are you serious?

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 30 Dec 2005 6:11 am

"To compare his style to traditional E9 country is a disservice to both styles. It's like comparing bananas to hamburgers. They're both food, but they have nothing to do with each other."

Thanks Mike. That's a better expression of what I was trying to get across.

It's like trying to compare B.B. King to Andres Segovia.

Bobby Booggs - no I wasn't trying to say anything aboutt comparative skill levels. I was saying you can't compare them, because stylistically they are so different.

Marlin Smoot · Post by **Marlin Smoot** » 30 Dec 2005 7:25 am

Well Sliff,
Once again you have miss interpreted my posting after I clearly explained it to you, trying unsuccessfully to overanalyze and redirecting my content to somehow or someway convince yourself and others (due to an apparent low self esteem) that you are right. However I am surprised at your lack of understandability considering you?re a self-imposed intellect on all things country, when you don?t even like country music. Your slanderous and incorrect remarks make your credibility factor with me at zero. I needed to set the record straight for anyone who may have bought into Jim?s miss-directed comments of my previous posting. This also is my final response to this person on the forum on this issue as it?s obviously impossible to conduct any type of communication with him without his attempting to use immature tactics.

Connie Burton · Post by **Connie Burton** » 30 Dec 2005 8:01 am

so what is the big deal. People on here make sport of bango all the time. Just consider it Humor!

Steve Hitsman · Post by **Steve Hitsman** » 30 Dec 2005 8:20 am

Here we go:
http://www.dailypress.com/features/columnists/dp-46071cm0dec30,0,4894565.column?coll=dp-features-columnists

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 30 Dec 2005 8:24 am

Justice served.

:>)

cheers,
Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 30 Dec 2005 8:52 am

I should probably shut up, but I just want to get a handle on what Marlin wrote, since I didn't see anything slanderous, insulting, indicative of "low self-esteem," or immature in Jim's or Steinar's posts that would cause Marlin to pick up his marbles and go home.

Marlin, you acknowledge, in statements gleaned from both your posts, that (1) RR can play the steel guitar, but he's not "a steel player";

(2) that Buddy, Paul, and a lot of members of the Forum ARE steel players.

This would imply that (3) if a musician plays traditional music on the steel, he is a "steel player." But (4) if the music being played is NOT traditional, then the musician is PLAYING A STEEL GUITAR, but has not earned the designation "steel player," regardless of his proficiency playing the music he's chosen to play.

Since few, if any, "steel players" on the Forum have the proficiency of Buddy or Paul, technique or ability to play is not the primary determining factor.

Therefore, (5) it's the style of music being played that determines whether or not a musician is "a steel player."

This is what I infer from your posts. Am I incorrect in feeling that's your opinion on the matter?

I also believe, reading Jim's and Steinar's responses, that is also what they understood from your writings. You of course are free to interpret their responses, and mine, as you wish.

This position would of course imply that to a devotee of classical music, Andres Segovia is a "guitarist," while Allan Holdsworth, just as an example, "plays a guitar."

Or that to the rock musician, Yngvie Malmsteen is a "guitarist," while Brad Paisley "plays a guitar."

As a sidebar, perhaps I may share with the Forum some information I've gleaned from those knowledgeable of the Sacred Steel community, especially Lonnie "Big Ben" Bennett. Lonnie is a great SS player with whom I've had the pleasure of jamming on Gospel music (along with Dan Tyack, Stu Schulman, Bob Hoffnar, Bruce Bouton and yes, Frank Estes!!

) Lonnie allows as how there are many, many young players of steel guitar, generally young African-Americans, who read this Forum voraciously and religiously. They buy our instructional material and know how to play "country style." I guess that they'd qualify as "steel players," but few ever post on this Forum because they feel intimidated by what goes on here.

So much for the "brotherhood of steel guitar," right? A concept I've never felt comfortable with, incidentally. I've known lots of steel players that I'm decidedly not "in brotherhood" with.

I can understand the reluctance of these young men to post here. Sometimes I read stuff on the Forum that is so off-base, so out of touch with the world of professional musicians who work at the craft for their livelihoods, and so insular and protectionist, that I'm intimidated about posting here. But fools walk in where wise men fear to tread, and that's why you see my name here occasionally.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 30 December 2005 at 09:06 AM.]

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 30 Dec 2005 9:06 am

Thanks, Steve, for posting the link to the article.

I have to give the guy credit, that was a pretty good followup to the original article...maybe he isn't such a bad journalist after all?

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Mark

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 30 Dec 2005 9:13 am

Herb,
You are a voice for fairness, balance, and respect. Thanks.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 30 Dec 2005 9:19 am

Marlin,
Herb's post makes me realize I should apologize for my snotty and smug post about Dan Smoot.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 30 Dec 2005 9:33 am

Mr. Smoot, I do not understand your anger. I pointed out that you were implying RR is a lesser talent, i.e. your term "a guy sitting behind a steel" than a "steel guitar player". I'm just saying you can't compare apples and oranges. The styles are so different there's no point in even trying to make a comparison...and whether or not he has the "chops" of a Buddy Emmons is completely irrelevant.

What's slanderous about that?

As far as those dismissing me because I didn't know who Curly Chalker is/was or because I don't listen to country music, there are many different style out there and pedal steel can be used in any of them. I wasn't aware I had to punch in at the "country music" time clock to play pedal steel.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 30 Dec 2005 9:51 am

Thanks to Herb Steiner for saying what needed to be said.

JW Day · Post by **JW Day** » 30 Dec 2005 10:00 am

Oh- Oh Marlin, you've really messed up now. You and I are going to be classified in the same group. Let me think now, I believe it was, narrow minded, ignorant, and arrogant. Your supposed to agree with Mr. Sliff in all his beliefs. Of course this is the man that called a young man a fool. And , anyone that believes in any of the bibles of the world, knows what the payment is for this.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 30 Dec 2005 10:01 am

Wow! Sam McDonald's public response to the emails is great! On behalf of the entire Forum community I say, "Apology accepted, with thanks!"

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog [This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 30 December 2005 at 10:02 AM.]

Post by **b0b** » 30 Dec 2005 10:06 am

Let's stop attacking each other here, please!

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 30 Dec 2005 10:52 am

I'm so thank full that I'm not a drummer. Long ago a country singer said " Drums are the devil instrument". That would say ,playing drums is a sin. After that drums made it big in country music.Now it would be a sin if I put my steel on a scrap heap but, the way a sound sometimes it might not be a sin. Happy New Year Joe

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 30 Dec 2005 10:54 am

Hey that article is great! Take the time to read it while you cool off from the posts you're reading here.

Several of our forum members were mentioned in that column. Hope everyone was kind that emailed the guy.

Imagine if you would Robert Randolph visiting this site because he's "into" steel guitar, only to find out in the end he's not a steel player.

Rick

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 30 Dec 2005 11:02 am

I've found the steel guitar world to be full of "renaissance men."

That is, those whose thinking is rooted somewhere in the 15th century.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 30 Dec 2005 11:24 am

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[This message was edited by Richard Sinkler on 30 December 2005 at 12:04 PM.]