Our Instrument / Scrap Heap of the Uncool

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 27 Dec 2005 11:07 am

Quick, someone email Mark Knopfler and let him know how uncool he has been (Eric Clapton, George Harrison, Paul McCartney, and Joe Cocker too)!

for the writer of the article, some help:

()() <- your a$$

@ <- a hole in the ground
Now you know the difference.

------------------
Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 27 Dec 2005 11:07 am

At least he didn't call it a "peddle steel' or "steel pedal' guitar.

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 27 Dec 2005 11:10 am

text of an email I sent to the linked article author's address:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Dear sir,

Your description of pedal steel guitar pre Robert Randolph displays dismaying ignorance on your part, of the true history of the instrument and it's proponents.

Robert Randolph is a unique individual and a very fine player. In order to make that point you need not have denigrated generations of highly skilled, intelligent and articulate players of this incredible machine.

Your tack of "guilt by association" associating steel guitar with what you perceive as less than "cool" acts is ridiculous.

Additionally the pedal steel does not require the likes of the Jayhawks or Uncle Tupelo to "rehabilitate" it, nor legitimize it.

Artists choose to use the instrument in their productions for the inherent beauty of it's sound, or because a particular player will bring a unique statement to their music. Or admittedly BECAUSE of it's history in and close identification with country music... nothing gives an act like Uncle Tupelo more instantaneous "country" street cred than using a steel guitar.

I would advise you to do more and more sharply focused research into the history of pedal steel.

David Van Allen::Pedal Steel Guitarist

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 27 Dec 2005 11:43 am

Uncool is the new cool...i dont see why you guys are so upset?

1. The writer obviously knows little to nothing about steel or country music even.
2. Who cares if he or the rest of the planet thinks steel is "uncool"?

I'm your run of the mill gen-x rocker brought up on flying v's and marshall stacks, I couldnt separate Buddy Emmons From Buddy Rich up till a few weeks ago, but I dont just think the pedal steel is one of the coolest instruments Ive ever heard or played...i know it is.

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 27 Dec 2005 11:56 am

"Love Lifted Me"....the only Kenny Rogers hit song that I am aware of that had a pedal steel on it.

I think I did more work figuring out which Kenny Rogers hit song had pedal steel on it (went to AllMusic.com, looked up the album "10 Years Of Gold" since I knew the song with steel was on there, found the song...took 30 seconds)than the "writer" of the article did in researching the instrument and the country music genre.
[This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 27 December 2005 at 11:58 AM.]

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 27 Dec 2005 12:06 pm

Right on, Dave...
Most music journalism is a lot of hyperbole, and I wouldn't take too much offense that this guy is "dissing steel to the whole world". As has been mentioned, he really is pretty accurate about the comments on where RR is coming from, and his history in the public eye. (There certainly was a label feeding frenzy to sign him after his Medeski collaboration, and the support he's getting from Warner Bros., and the "jam band scene", is pretty intense).
After all, this article is about Robert, not about steel guitar.

Although unfortunate, I can imagine the comments about "rescuing steel from the scrap heap" are aimed at a readership who only "hear" steel in what to them is dated, hackneyed country music "like" Conway and Kenny. I expect he chose those artists to ring that bell for those who perhaps grew up hearing them played on Dad or Grandpa's radio, and he's just trying to emotionally connect "country steel" with "old timey stuff", making his case that RR is a "new thing".

If anything, my experience has shown me that he's out of touch with his intended audience, who often know exactly what pedal steel is, like it, and don't relegate it to only old country sounds, partly through introductions to Cage, Garcia, and RR.

There are a whole lot of artists using steelers like Daniel Lanois on current "pop" or "rock" recordings, and I wonder if they are offended to be left out of the "spotlight of hipness" here as well...

It seems that many here are offended by the hype and hyperbole surrounding Robert Randolph, in that he doesn't represent their kind of steel guitar. I hope they don't confuse the media with the man.
Many folks were deeply offended with
the "Clapton is God" pronouncements in the late 60's, and he's certainly outlasted the hype. RR looks to have a long career ahead.

I love Bill's comments:

Robert Randolph knows about and has in interviews paid his respect to several great PSG players. He has given them the credit and respect that he can't even get here.

Beautifully stated.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 27 Dec 2005 12:19 pm

I just sent this guy an email. This is down right insulting to the pedal steel community. Randolph is going to dig himself into a hole if he lets this crap keep being perpetuated.
The pedal steel guitar is not considered cool? Bull ^^%%$$##@! I opened for The Outlaws last month. I had at least a dozen young musicians swamp me when I got off stage asking me how they could get into pedal steel guitar. I opened for 38 Special in the summer and got the same thing. This is nothing but pure racist discrimination against country music and white males. Racist propaganda.
[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 27 December 2005 at 12:23 PM.][This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 27 December 2005 at 07:21 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 27 Dec 2005 12:33 pm

...the only Kenny Rogers hit song that I am aware of that had a pedal steel...

Well, his only hit of the last decade, "Buy Me A Rose", had pedal steel, but I've always believed that calling Kenny a country singer was kind of a stretch. I'm sure the steel was added to conform with what is selling as "country", nowadays.

Those that believe what the writer said are of little importance in the world of music, especially our world. He's entitled to his opinion, however skewed or subjective it might be, and being a journalist/media person, we couldn't expect much objectivity from him.

To find an objective journalist/media person, you have to go back to the days of Douglas Edwards!

Since the mid '60s, everyone and everything seems to have an agenda. To recognize an agenda is crucial, but to try and argue it is rather pointless.

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 27 Dec 2005 12:38 pm

Maybe what we are seeing is the birth of a new recognition of the steel guitar as a "legitimate" instrument in the eyes of those who never knew what a steel guitar was or what it could be.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Dec 2005 12:40 pm

I couldn't help it, todays a slow fun do nuthin' day..too much time..
I wrote the guy again..

all in fun..no disrespect...

--------------------------------------------

Hello Sam, once again I somehow feel obligated to communicate to you concerning your slighty off edge understanding of the Pedal Steel Guitar.

yes you are right, I have too much time on my hands today..no doubt.

You mentioned two early era Country Musicians with ref. to Pedal Steel..

Kenny Rogers, being one. Well, I have been on the bandstands for approx 40 years covering Blues, Rock and Country..As I think back I can't actually recall a single Kenny Rogers song that actually had a Steel on it, but I could be wrong...

Now on the other hand you mention Conway Twitty..now there is a legend in Country Music , but the problem with mentioning Conway is you shoot you own arguement right in the foot. You see, the Pedal Steel player , and very close friend of Conway for sessions and road tours is none other than John Hughey. Now that name may not mean much to you in your world, but to the most entry level player /student of Pedal Steel Guitar the name rings loud and clear. You see, the era of Conway Twitty and the use of Pedal Steel Guitar was carried forward all these decades to the present by John Hughey who plays sessions with and tours with a guy, perhaps you have heard of him ,Vince Gill..Maybe you have heard some of Vince Gills songs, I sure hope you didn't miss out on those .

Now , to state that our Instrument is in the scrap pile as no one had used Pedal Steels since Conway one has only to listen to Vince Gill and understand that it is the SAME Pedal Steel Player ..and a good one at that..So evidently John Hugheys Steel never made it to the scrap pile.

Oh , and just another side note, the reference that RR( Robert) brought a new exciting style to the Instrument is somewhat misleading...ya see, theres this guy named Paul Franklin jr, probably the worlds # 1 Steel session player, well Paul Franklin Jr was part of Mark Knopflers Dire Straits,thru a part of the 80's, playing as you described the new and unique style for this Instrument.

So Sam, been there done that...

by the way, a brief Internet search , perhaps a few minutes , would have given you all this information so you could have been a bit less criticle and perhaps left out the SCRAP PILE thing..

Ok..off to woodshed..can't wait for your next article...make it a good one..

regards
Tony Prior
Musician
Telecasters
Fender Basses
Scrap Pile heap [This message was edited by Tony Prior on 27 December 2005 at 12:42 PM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 27 Dec 2005 1:00 pm

"I truly belierve you can get the same sound out of a 49 dollar wal-mart 6 stringer, with a very cheap amp."

This comment is as ignorant as the one in question. The poster is as obviously narrow-minded and ignorant about "music" as the article writer.

Red Kilby · Post by **Red Kilby** » 27 Dec 2005 1:02 pm

I too sent Mr. McDonald an email here is the letter.>>>>>>>>

Hi Sam,

I would just like to start off by saying that Robert Randolph is indeed a good musician and a fairly decent steel player, and has brought the steel guitar into the limelight with the younger generation, but please let me express that you need to check a little deeper into steel guitar history to find out that there are alot more, and better steel players in the music industry that play better, and have been around the block 10 more times than Robert Randolph, and have played on thousands more records.

The 1st one that comes to mind is Lloyd Green, his nickname is "Mr.Nashville Sound", and has played on over 30,000 records in his career, and alot of #1's, just check out his tribute page www.lloydgreentribute.com , then there is Buddy Emmons who not only took part in playing on many hits, but also made and designed the Sho~Bud Steel Guitar with Shot Jackson in the 50's, and also his own line of steels which have been the standard of the industry since the 60's, Emmons Steel Guitar.

Then there is the steel player that you have heard on just about every record since 1985 or so, Paul Franklin, who also has his own line of steel guitar's too, Franklin Steels.

Now for a couple of steel players from the distant past, Jerry Byrd who just past away that everyone from the 40's on tried to copy his sound, and Hal Rugg who was on thousands of records too from the 50's till his death this year, and what about Ralph Mooney the most copied steel player, and the steel guitar behind the whole Bakersfield Sound of the 50's and 60's.

I would also invite you to check out my website, www.redkilby.com , I am not a steel player just a steel fan and historian, and I used some of these legends on my new CD "Keepin' It Real" because I wanted the authentic sound, please give a listen to the soundbites, it's not this BUBBLE GUM sound on today's records.

The main point of my letter to you is that Robert Randolph is a good steel player, but he is by NO Means Great!!!!!! Please check into these names and get back in touch with me by email.

And as far as RESCUING the instrument, "It was never lost, just the Nashville Producers of today like Mutt Lange, and others that are EX-ROCK producers, have NO CLUE how to use steel on records, all they want is Rock and Roll Guitars and Drums.

Take care, Red Kilby www.redkilby.com

P.S. Real Country Music is Not Dead Yet!!!!![This message was edited by Red Kilby on 30 December 2005 at 09:44 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 27 Dec 2005 1:03 pm

Un-cool huh? Good, I don't like "cool" or what it stands for.

Friends and neighbors, rejoice! Steel guitar sales were triple last year what they ever were before. And not one of my customers ever mentioned Robert Randolph.
The only time I ever hear his name in "Steel Guitar Nashville" is when he comes in himself.

I am not to sure he is really helping steel sales anywhere at all. Good musicians don't care for what he plays, and little kids only talk about his theatrics and the funny noises he makes.

We sold several hundred guitars last year, I can't attribute one sale to him, I'm not putting Robert or his entertaining career down, he is a personal friend, but I think we are giving him way to much credit for "saving steel guitar". I know the writer of this stupid artical is.

Ask any dealer or factory about how Robert has impacted their sales, you'll come up with a pretty big zero.

Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 27 December 2005 at 01:05 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 27 Dec 2005 1:16 pm

Something pretty funny just happend, as I was writing this last post, a phone call came in from a musician on the west coast. He wanted to buy a steel guitar. I mentioned Robert R. and this artical, and he said, "if that's the only way steel guitar can sound, I don't want one". I assured him that steel could be played with big pretty chords, soft sweet melodies and make very pleasing sounds. He bought a new guitar!!!

Robert R. could have cost me a sale.
This is the truth, take it to mean anything you want it to mean. But it happend, I just thought it was pretty interesting.

Bobbe

Miguel e Smith · Post by **Miguel e Smith** » 27 Dec 2005 1:46 pm

Like many articles, this one is entirely subjective and, of course, opinionated. The writer has apparently not been enlightened as to the many that represent "cool" in many different formats.

Although I think it's great that Robert is getting all the wonderful press and is getting this exposure in large markets, I did send a note to this writer (with my opinion) that he was not well versed in the other options that exist. The writer is obviously not a country fan (which is ok) but yet is attempting to make a point that everything done until Robert appeared has been "uncool". Sure, we all have our favorite players or styles, but this is one of those blanket statements that is just purely uneducated at the very least.

I'm not offended by this writer's statements as I'm very secure in what I believe and what I like (and I do like Robert), but I'd invite each of you to email this writer and express an educated opinion as well.

Gaylon, thanks for posting this. For those who'd like to email the writer, use the link to the article and click on the writers name.

Mike[This message was edited by Miguel e Smith on 27 December 2005 at 01:47 PM.]

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 27 Dec 2005 1:51 pm

Oh yeah, I forgot.... someone email Sponge Bob also

The thing about this whole thread is .... what parallel universe is this "writer" living in? For the last 12 months I have only played for the younger crowd in their 20's. As Kevin noted, it is the rare set I finish that there are not several folks waiting to ask me about the steel, how it works, where can you get one. Steel is hotter than hot, and while RR may also be enjoying some popularity, so is Johnny Cash, Buck Owens, and the new bands playing music inspired by these country greats.

------------------
Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 27 Dec 2005 1:54 pm

"I truly belierve you can get the same sound out of a 49 dollar wal-mart 6 stringer, with a very cheap amp."

Yes, that really DOES sound ignorant. Anyone have an idea why he subscribed to the forum?

Robert Randolph- well, I have heard the name but NOT any of his music (if that makes me ignorant, well, perhaps, though new trends generally have to bop me on the head to get me to notice thse days... Seeing as I haven;t yet heard him, I won't comment on what he does. I try not to criticize people I have not heard, but seeing as the amount of like/dislike sent his way by other form members, I would assume what he's doing actually IS innovative to some degree, and whatever that is, that cannot hurt the instrument. I'll listen to Robert when his music comes right up in my face (I'm without a sound card on this computer, so, please, no links!) but until I actually HEAR him I would not care t say something ill-willed nor out of place, you know?
What HURTS the instrument are those people who beleieve it "belongs in the scrap heap" or
who'd like to KEEP it where it was in the late 50's early 60's, pre use in R & R.
Who think it has only one "proper" place in music.

An intrument is an instrument, and it is up to the creative to use it however they see fit. If people have problems with it, it's up to the people who like to see a tree for its fruit, not it's roots, to nourish the progress.

Gaylon Mathews · Post by **Gaylon Mathews** » 27 Dec 2005 2:02 pm

Since I started this thread I feel the need to clarify that Robert Randolph was NOT the point of my post. I think most everyone knows this but I felt It had to be said by me. I just think the writer needs to stop wearing his a$$ for a hat and look around before the pen hits the paper.

------------------
Gaylon's Homepage
www.gaylonmathews.com

Gretchen Wilson
www.gretchenwilson.com

GFI Ultra D-10, Fender Steel King, GHS Strings, SteelSeat.com

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Dec 2005 2:13 pm

reading all of the above comments to this ridiculous artlicle makes me wonder...

What exactly was this guys purpose, ? To build up Robert or to tear down an Instrument that he obvioulsy abhors. For what reason ? who knows.

If the article itself was to build up his appreciation for RR then it would really be fine, a review so to speak. Even I would not have an issue with it. But the man goes on to just dig a hole and put all Pedal Steels in the hole and cover them with dirt.

Why would he do that ? What motive would he have ?

Why, 'cause he can, he has a pen, a job as a writer and he can pretty much do as he feels free to do, but somewhere along the line he has developed an immense hatred for Steel Guitars...and I am somewhat certain that he has an immense hatred for any form or style of Country Music as well.

I'm not sorry I wrote him, but considering what we are dealing with it was a total waste of time...

The good news I hope is that young musicians will not even read his article let alone buy into it...I'm thinking RR would not as well...after all, he IS a Steel Player...

Maybe if he knew just how COOL he would look wearing a Sho-Bud cap..he would re-think is motives...

nahhh...

ignorance is not against the law...at least not yet..[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 27 December 2005 at 02:14 PM.]

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 27 Dec 2005 2:26 pm

I've been told by a few other rock guitarists that my PSG looked and sounded 'cool'.

Tommy R. Butler · Post by **Tommy R. Butler** » 27 Dec 2005 3:01 pm

I just got through with an email to this guy. Advised him that the steel guitar community was pretty large. Told him he may be on the carpet over this , as soon as we all get through sending complaints to his boss.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 27 Dec 2005 3:08 pm

quote:

"This is nothing but pure racist discrimination against country music and white males. Racist propaganda."

Wow, he may be clueless, but....

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 27 Dec 2005 3:23 pm

What's going on here....is Robert Randolph
landing a gig with Kenny Rogers?

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 27 Dec 2005 3:49 pm

Gaylon, I think everyone can see that your post is about the writer's un/misinformed statements. Why he chooses to make these disparaging remarks about the instrument is anybody's guess. RR certaintly doesn't need, and is probably insulted by, this guy putting down the instrument in his attempt to praise Robert.

Messrs. Doggett, Finney, van Allen and Lind-Hanson's comments sum up most of my thoughts on the story.

To denigrate Robert's style and success only serves to make the community seem unaccepting, further stereotyping the instrument and it's players. Please, let's not go there.
I feel that critics and the news agencies in general take themselves way too seriously anyway. JMHO.[This message was edited by Jerry Overstreet on 27 December 2005 at 04:39 PM.]

Roger Francis · Post by **Roger Francis** » 27 Dec 2005 4:23 pm

It takes a mighty musician to rescue an instrument from the scrap heap of the uncool

I find this statement very disrespectfull, especially from someone who knows absolutely nothing about what he is talking about.