Newbe - 1st Steel

Bill Pillmore · Post by **Bill Pillmore** » 6 Dec 2005 5:22 pm

I am ready to buy my first steel and have narrowed it down to the Carter Starter and the GFI Student model. Is there any one who has played both of these instruments that can help me. My main concerns are how accurate the mechanisms are and the sound of the pickups.
Thanks
Bill

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Bill Fulbright · Post by **Bill Fulbright** » 6 Dec 2005 5:57 pm

Try to start with as good a guitar as you can afford. You won't be sorry.

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Bill Fulbright
Gitane DG500M; Ibanez Artcore AF85VLS, Yamaha SY-77; My Music Site - <A HREF="http://hotguitar.org

" TARGET=_blank>http://hotguitar.org</a>

</A>

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 6 Dec 2005 6:05 pm

Bill,,
Welcome to the Forum,,Both guitars you mentioned have very good reputations as "student" guitars, I don't think you could go wrong with them.

Larry

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Emmons S/D-10, 3/5, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 6 Dec 2005 6:36 pm

[qute]I don't think you could go wrong with them.[/quote]

I agree. the most important thing about a student guitar is that it has a minimum of 3 knee levers. Both the Carter and GFI have 4.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 6 Dec 2005 7:11 pm

JMO: NO PICKUP will sound better than any other ( except for the amount of windings ) Each guitar has it's own sound. The player is the deciding factor as to what the sound will be.
All modern pickups are good, or they would not be in business due to the competition. TIT (tone, intonation, technique) is what makes a good sound. Go practice! ( A LOT)[This message was edited by Jim Bob Sedgwick on 06 December 2005 at 07:13 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 6 Dec 2005 10:24 pm

Have you checked out either of those steels in person yet ? I would get together with a pro level player and have him show you what is up with pedalsteels before buying anything.

Bob

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 6 Dec 2005 10:42 pm

"NO PICKUP will sound better than any other ( except for the amount of windings"

Amount of windings doesn't make a better sounding pickup. Amount, type, magnet type, bobbin type and design all enter making *different* sounding pickups.

The amount of windings by itself is irrelevant.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 6 Dec 2005 11:41 pm

I have to say that I don't believe a beginner is going to sound really fantastic for a while, no matter what pickup or guitar brand you get, it takes time to get a tone.

The main thing is you get a guitar with quality mechanics and components and 4 knee levers that you can grow with, and either of the two you mentioned should be fine.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 7 Dec 2005 2:05 am

Welcome to this great forum Bill !

you've come to the right place fer sure
since yer interested in a student model, please note that WBS steels from Germany offer the only student model (that i know of) in which the copedent (or pedal set up - PSU) can be modified at will
only 900 €uros
imo, it's a pro model
http://www.wbssteelguitars.com/ [This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 07 December 2005 at 02:06 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 7 Dec 2005 4:27 am

The Carter does have 4 knee levers; the basic GFI student comes with two. Others can be added, and the price goes up to almost twice what the Starter costs. It's a question of budget.
I started with a Starter and it served me well. The GFI is very appealing--the mechanics of it bottomside, and the styling.
So many factors--good luck.

David C. Wright · Post by **David C. Wright** » 7 Dec 2005 4:39 am

Hey Bill, I was where you are in August. I looked and since I was so green, I didn't know what to buy. I called a friend of mine that plays the Opry, and he recomended GFI. I went to see Bobbe Seymore at Steel Guitar Nashville, and he explained stuff to me. Instead of going with the student model, I went with the GFI Ultra. It wasn't much more money, and it is a "pro" model. My thinking is, I'm going to learn and I'm keep this thing for a while, so why not get a guitar that will give me all that I will ever need. I got a single neck (E9), and I'm very satified. It has 3 pedals and 4 knee levers, if I want to add pedals, it's easy to update this guitar. Call Bobbe.

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David.C. Wright
GFI SD10P Pod Fender Deluxe Reverb

Bill Pillmore · Post by **Bill Pillmore** » 7 Dec 2005 5:10 am

Thanks for all the good information. My situation is that I don't know any steel players personally and the only music store that had a steel had the Carver starter. They had a used one less than a year old but no one there new much about it. The mechanism seemed to have some squeaks and was out of adjustment - assuming these are minor things and having never seen the GFI model I was hoping someone who had played both models and could give me an opinion. The GFI 2 Knee Lever model is 200+ more so that may make my decision for me.

Bill Fulbright · Post by **Bill Fulbright** » 7 Dec 2005 5:21 am

there is a carter starter on the Steel Forum for sale pages... just hit this morning...

you might want to check it out.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 7 Dec 2005 9:03 am

Bill,

I'll add two considerations: resale and repairs. I don't know which new steels retain most of their value. If you buy a good used one, you can break even when you sell it.

And i don't know which ones need repairs. In general, I believe the oldest ones are harder to maintain. I have a hunch that most guitars after @1970 aren't that difficult. It's a good balance: you can get a used one that holds its value, but it isn't too funky mechanically. On the other hand, a lot of people think the only way to go is with the current stuff, which certainly is mechanically superior and much lighter, but others say it's like cars: why take the depreciation hit on a new one.

Another thing: a lot of people are going to be telling you that the best bar is this, the best cords are that, ya gotta get all these add-on pedals, ya gotta have a steel amp. Well, you do if you are a pro. I'd say don't dump a lot of $ on that yet. Just plug that sucker in and start gettin' it.

Best selection and advice: hit these sites for info
http://www.scottysmusic.com/

Bobbe Seymour at http://www.steelguitar.net/

Brad's page of steel http://www.well.com/user/wellvis/steel.html

Billy Cooper http://www.billycoopersmusic.com/sales.htm

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"Drinking up the future, and living down the past"--unknown singer in Phoenix

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 7 Dec 2005 9:47 am

I would suggest buying a used professional model, rather than investing in a student model. All above advice is good, especially if you can meet with some players. 4 knees is also good advice. Check the used steels here and other on-line stores (links are found on the forum). Have fun.

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 7 Dec 2005 8:05 pm

I'm sure you can find some great steel players near you to help out. Put a notice up on the forum or check here.

You don't really need 4 levers to get started. A new student of mine just picked up a beautiful BMI S10 with 3 and 3 for around $1,150 from JIm Palenscar's new shop near LA and http://www.cajunsteelguitar.com/ has a sweet MSA S10 on there site right now for about the same money. From your question about pickup tone I get the impression that you are whistling in the dark when it comes to steel guitar. You will absolutely NOT get the information you need at this point from the internet. Take the time to find a live player or 3. Otherwise you will waste quite a bit of your money and time.

Tons of great pickers in N.C. If you are anywhere near Burlington drop by the Emmons factory.
http://www.emmonsguitar.net/

Bob

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 8 Dec 2005 2:03 am

What Bob H. says for sure,
find a live player to talk with,
and get some hands on time if you can...
In N. C., that shouldn't be hard.

I have played the GFI and Carter, both are good steels.
I myself got an old Shobud from a forumite, but... that ain't for everybody.
I have since taught myself to be a steel mechanic.

If you are already a lapsteeler,
and/or IF you REALLY think you will keep playing,
no matter how slow your progress,
then get the used Pro steel with more adjustability good for the longer term.

If you just want to see if you like steeling...
then the student model, with a fixed setup, is a good choice.

There surely is much to be learned, you can get good and gig on the Carter, GFI,
or the WBS my buddy Crowbear mentioned too.
I have played one for a little bit, very well made steels.

Good luck and happy hunting.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 08 December 2005 at 02:04 AM.]

Rodney Garrison · Post by **Rodney Garrison** » 8 Dec 2005 8:20 am

My Carter Starter is 5 yrs. old now. Yes, it shows signs of wear but has served me well. Stays in tune,light weight, and gave me the 3 x 4 that is a big plus.
IMO dollar for dollar it is the way to go.
Welcome,
RG