Lay Lady Lay

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 20 Oct 2005 5:34 pm

Larry, that's good enough for me.... Pete Drake it is.

I met him once in 1981. We talked about some of his signature licks. He said the one that rocks the A pedal was called a "helicopter", and the shimmering descending slide was called a "divebomber".

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 20 Oct 2005 9:40 pm

Back in the day, Pete Drake was being paid well,
to record for serious national level acts,
on tracks that now today still stand the test of time.

He also had a melodic sense that crossed over to other genres than just country.

Not him crossing over,
but those in another genre PICKING HIM
to compliment their own inner ears desires.

I have heard a lot of tracks with him over the years,
whether I knew it at the time or not.
He ALWAYS played memorable parts that fit.

And never sounded like Buddy or Lloyd or JayDee or Jerry G.

He sounded like Pete Drake,
which was what he needed to do
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 20 October 2005 at 10:48 PM.]

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 20 Oct 2005 10:18 pm

NOT TECHNICALLY PROFICIENT?!?!?

That's like saying Albert King wasn't "technically proficient" because he didn't (and probably couldn't) play like Kenny Burrell, or Don Rich because he didn't play like Jimmy Bryant, or Steve Cropper cause he wasn't a great soloist... So many of the truly soulful players KNEW (or know)their strengths and concentrated on playing great MUSIC with what they had... and bless him, Pete Drake might not have wowwed his fellow players with chops but he contributed SO much to songs that still MOVE people to this day... And I'm sorry, I think THAT'S what counts...

If anyone can listen to Tammy Wynette's "Apartment Number Nine" (or a thousand other songs he played on) and not think that the incredibly beautiful steel playing is "technically proficient' than I feel sorry for you... That's great steel guitar playing, and more importantly; great MUSIC...!

Jim Hinton · Post by **Jim Hinton** » 21 Oct 2005 6:31 am

Jeff Newman used to talk about another player that I have heard of, but never met, or listened much to. Does the name Julian Tharpe's style of playing fit into this category of musician?

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 21 Oct 2005 7:00 am

No, Jim
Julian was WAAAAAAAAAY at the other end of the spectrum. He could play simply and beautifully, but was really known as a 'wild man' of pedal steel. I would not consider Julian's style even remotely similar to that of Pete Drake.

And the cool thing about it is that there is room for both approaches -- and everything in between. It's all good music if done tastefully and appropriately.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 21 Oct 2005 12:40 pm

One of these days, the steel guitar- both PSG and non-pedal- will have enough guys doing non-western swing that we will begin to acknowledge that different styles of playing make for different definitions of "good". For me, the players that people seem comfortable vilifying- ignorantly- are playing a completely different style of music and don't really care if someone thinks they are as good as BE or anyone else at it. I am good for about 15 minutes of steel guitar instrumentals by any of the "acknowledged masters" of the instrument. But Sol Hoopii can captivate me for hours. I love old country blues like RL Burnside and T-Model Ford; noone might think they are "technically proficient" and the music would be ruined if they were. If someone had been playing super speedy licks on L.L.L. or Teach, it would have detracted from the song IMO. And personally, I don't care if I get good enough that a bunch of players want to stand around and watch. I want to be good enough that a bunch of paying customers want to stand around and watch...[This message was edited by Keith Cordell on 21 October 2005 at 01:42 PM.]

Jim Hinton · Post by **Jim Hinton** » 21 Oct 2005 12:50 pm

Excellent analysis Keith

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 21 Oct 2005 1:22 pm

Who ever said anything about western swing? Why do you feel that only western swing is categorized as 'good'. I love western swing but thought we were talking Pete Drake -- certainly not remembered for anything other than classic country.

Why equate 'speedy licks' and 'technically proficient'?

Sorry -- guess I didn't follow the logic.

No session player in his right mind would have tried to play 'speedy licks' (except maybe Speedy West

) on the songs mentioned. Tasteful and appropriate is as important as technically proficient in my book. And technical ability applies equally to playing slow songs and ballads as much as burning a bluegrass tempo.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Jim Hinton · Post by **Jim Hinton** » 21 Oct 2005 3:50 pm

My best friend sent me this story, pretty much "out of the blue". After reading it, I felt it was exactly what this thread was talking about, and I hope you enjoy it

" NO ADMITTANCE "

When the house lights dimmed and the concert
was about to begin, the mother returned to
her seat and discovered that the child was missing.

Suddenly, the curtains parted and spotlights
focused on the impressive Steinway on stage.
In horror, the mother saw her little
boy sitting at the keyboard, innocently picking out "Twinkle,Twinkle Little Star."

At that moment, the great piano master made his entrance, quickly moved to the piano, and
whispered in the boy's ear,"Don't quit.""Keep playing."

Then, leaning over, Paderewski reached
down with his left hand and began filling
in a bass part. Soon his right arm reached
around to the other side of the child,
and he added a running obbligato.

Together, the old master and the young novice
transformed what could have been a frightening situation into a wonderfully creative experience.

The audience was so mesmerized that they couldn't recall what else the great master played. Only the classic, "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star."

Perhaps that's the way it is with God. What we can accomplish on our own is hardly noteworthy.

We try our best, but the results aren't always graceful flowing music. However, with the hand of the Master, our life's work can truly be beautiful.

The next time you set out to accomplish great feats, listen carefully. You may hear the voice of the Master, whispering in your ear,
"Don't quit." "Keep playing."

May you feel His arms around you and
know that His hands are there, helping you
turn your feeble attempts into true masterpieces.

Remember, God doesn't seem to call the equipped, rather, He equips the 'called.'

Life is more accurately measured by the lives you touch than by the things you acquire. So touch someone by passing this little message along.

May God bless you and be with you always!

Jim

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 21 Oct 2005 11:44 pm

Steve Cropper cause he wasn't a great soloist...

Huh!!!
I just opened up for the Blues Brothers 3 weeks ago, Steve Cropper is an excellent soloist.

He just has the good taste to keep it short and sweet.
States his melodic idea and gets off.
But he could wail on longer.

He also had John Tropea as 2nd guitarist.
You can't share the stage with this monster soloists if you can't yourself.
Lovely Paderewski anecdote.
I had heard it before. He was a super teacher by all reports.

Pete Drake was similar to Cropper,
he stated his ideas cleanly and clearly,
and left the speed flailing to others.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 22 October 2005 at 12:48 AM.]

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 23 Oct 2005 4:05 pm

Jim Hinton, that is one of the finest posts I've read on this forum in quite a while.

Thanks for sharing.

dg

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 23 Oct 2005 4:44 pm

If you want to hear some great Pete Drake get Tracy Nelson sings Country.

IMO, it was Tracy Nelson that didn't make the grade on that one.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 24 Oct 2005 1:50 pm

Perhaps I should have said "western swing-derived". Most of the classic country stuff that I hear that includes great pedal steel parts is heavily influenced by the west, IMO. I have my asbestos suit on, so flame away.

As to the speedy licks, I probably said that badly too- I meant the tricky type stuff that the artists that get derided on here either can't play or wouldn't touch. I happen to have no interest in learning any PSG, and little interest in copping licks from most of the lap steelers with the exception of maybe Hoopii or Byrd. And I don't play anything even resembling classic country, but it does have its influences rooted there. I think a lot of the guys that are coming up feel the same way; there are lots of guys that can kill you with technique, we want to play what we hear. I hope to get there one day.

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 24 Oct 2005 2:30 pm

love the Paderewski story, and it's true, another interesting story was a guide was leading a tour through a museum and Chopins piano was there, a zealous player stepped over the ropes to play it, after doing his thing he stepped back, the guide was a little angry and told the player that Paderewski was there several weeks before and was asked to play the famous piano, Paderewski declined saying he wasn't worthy

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 24 Oct 2005 10:58 pm

Fascinating,isn't it,that Pete Drake, Garcia and Robert Randolph can share the same internet space- but one of the things we're touching on here is the emotional connection with the listener.
Sometimes we might need to step back a bit from our postion as "steel guitar operators" with our attraction to hot licks and great technique, and remember that the creation of music always starts with the emotional- a good melody, a good lyric, and the essence of communication- stating a feeling in a way that others can relate to and assilmilate.
It's one thing for a small contingent of us to admire the technical intracacies of a performance, and an entirely different thing for thousands, or millions, to be moved by the emotional content they can hear and relate to.
I feel fortunate to be able to bask in both ends of that steel spectrum.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com