Non-Pedal Theory "Quiz"

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 29 Oct 2005 8:46 am

Here is a quiz to see if you are an "Anti-Theorist" or a "Theorist" ...

Caution: You may know more theory than you think ...

The Scenario:

A 6 string Steel Guitar is tuned to E Major ...

<pre>hi to lo ... E B G# E B E
</pre>

1) What is the chord (name) at the 5th Fret?

2) What is the chord (name) at the 7th Fret?

3) What is the chord (name) at the 12th Fret?

4) What notes (name) are "missing" from the open strings ... that would be "needed" ... in order to play the E Major Scale.

5) Where, on the first string, would you find one "Blue" note ... as in The Blues.

6) What is the interval (name) between the 3rd and 2nd string?

<pre>(2nd string = B ; 3rd string = G#)</pre>

7) What is the interval (name) produced by employing a forward slant on the 2nd and 3rd strings?

How could you achieve ... using a slant on the "top" three strings ... the "Relative Minor" of the E chord ?

<pre>("Top" three strings = E, B, G#)</pre>

9) In the Key of E ... what "mode" (name) would you choose to play over the F#m chord ... if the band was playing this progression ...

<pre> |E...|F#m...|B7...|E...| </pre>

10) Name two chords that could be added to the second measure ... that would "fit" into this progression ... and "jazz it up" abit.

*Some questions may have more than one "correct" answer.

*Sorry ... No True/False or Multiple Choice. Short answer questions are my "style" ...

Answers found Here

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Aiello's House of Gauss


My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 29 October 2005 at 10:45 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 29 Oct 2005 9:56 am

Oh dang....he's in professor mode....again!

1. A Maj
2. B Maj
3. E Maj octave
4. F# A C#

ooops, forgot the D#....thanks Joel[This message was edited by HowardR on 29 October 2005 at 11:07 AM.]

Joel Newman · Post by **Joel Newman** » 29 Oct 2005 9:59 am

ok,
no cheating I haven't looked I promise . . .
1)a
2)b
3)e
4)f#,a,c#,d#
5)3rd fret,(for your minor 3rd)
6)6th
7)-7th
8)bottom of bar @4th fret,top@6th
9)F# dorian, but I'd like to think B mixolydian
10)well depending on yer melody note/s;
F#-7, a/b, G diminished,
#8 gave me a problem cuz I'm a c6th guy . . .ok now I'm gonna look, . . hey Rick I know a boobpan is out of the question but how 'bout a six stringer if I get 6 out of ten right . . .lol
------
doh! what a dummy I flipped the strings . . .[This message was edited by Joel Newman on 30 October 2005 at 06:13 PM.]

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 29 Oct 2005 10:34 am

Oh damn, I got a 60% score, Do I have to stay after school again?

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 29 Oct 2005 1:26 pm

Oh dang....he's in professor mode....again!

You know what they say ...

Those that can't ... Teach

I was famous (or infamous) for grading on "a curve" ... so don't worry Howard ...

Just goofin' around ... again ...

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Aiello's House of Gauss


My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 29 Oct 2005 2:05 pm

Duhhhh....I'm still looking for the chord of B# ...

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 29 Oct 2005 2:09 pm

I actually have my real homework to do, which is to write out the relative keys, both # & b. Then the harmonic minor & melodic minor keys. This guy gives out homework like a hurricane is coming, or something.

I like your class Rick. Ten questions and then it's happy hour!

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 29 Oct 2005 8:33 pm

Truly a great thread, Rick! In terms of researching the theorist/anti-theorist in all of us, I would suggest one last question for your quiz:
11) How useful would it be to you to know all of this on your next gig or jam session?

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
[This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 29 October 2005 at 09:34 PM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 30 Oct 2005 3:37 am

Sorry Mark ... but I'm a fan of the short answer guestion ... in writing and gradin' exams.

Subjective Essays take too long to grade ...

I would have to "tack on" ...

11) How useful would it be to you to know all of this on your next gig or jam session? Explain your answer.

... or I'd get ...

11) Very

or

11) Not

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Aiello's House of Gauss


My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 30 October 2005 at 04:04 AM.]

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 30 Oct 2005 10:04 am

Rick, I kind of meant it to be a rhetorical last question- from many of the recent forum threads about theory, it seems there are a bunch of folks who think applied theroretical studies are just too much work, and there wouldn't be enough benefit to their playing to offset the homework.

Yours is one of the first posts I've seen to address the "real world" issue...

I would think it would be obvious to any reader that they would be a better player if they could do, and use, each of the points in your questions. And then equally obivous that theory study should be helpful. Kudos.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 30 Oct 2005 12:33 pm

I was just goofin' 'round ... with the essay "thang" ...

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 30 Oct 2005 1:14 pm

Great post, Rick! I only answered 3 correctly though. After attending the Joliet convention and being around all the great and knowlegeable musicians, I see now how much I really need to learn theory. I'm thinking about taking a class, but want it to apply to steel guitar. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Would it be better to get a Theory for Dummies book and do it on my own, or sign up for a class?

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 30 Oct 2005 7:12 pm

Jeff, my personal experience is that a classroom environment with a good instructor is the most efficient and enjoyable way to learn. I sat down with a couple of theory books (there are 1000's of them) but I've learned more by taking the class.

You can apply what you learn to any instrument. Steel guitar is no exception.

My class goes like this.....7 or 8 students. We gather around the piano which is close to a chaulk board. The teacher writes on the board whatever he is teaching that night, scales, chords, relative keys, parallel keys, etc.....then he sits down, plays to illustrate, discusses, and throws out questions. We also have ear training. We disect popular songs and analyze them.

Last week he analyzed the 12 vbar blues to illustrate the relationship of parallel keys and blue notes.

You can't do all that with just a book or have your questions answered when needed. Learning certainly becomes clearer when there is discussion.[This message was edited by HowardR on 30 October 2005 at 07:27 PM.]

Gary Boyett · Post by **Gary Boyett** » 31 Oct 2005 3:27 am

My anti-virus software ate my homework..

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 31 Oct 2005 4:20 am

doh! what a dummy I flipped the strings . . .

I think I would've gotten more right if strings were numbered like notes on a piano, lo to hi.
Just my pet peeve with guitars....

But: how do you make a legal slant on 3 strings? I like quarter-tones, but most people don't....

John Bushouse · Post by **John Bushouse** » 31 Oct 2005 4:48 am

I like what Mark said above. Some of the most interesting steel guitar lessons I had, all in G tuning, were along the lines of this:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>You're playing with a group of people. Somebody starts playing a song in A.

1) Where are the I, IV, and V chords - no slants?

2) Where is the the 1st string-3rd string I chord - with a 1-fret slant?

3) Where is the I chord slanted across all three top strings?

4) What are some good options to play on the ii and vi chords?

The person who's singing decides that the song would be better in C. What are your answers now?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe this would be called "applied theory?" I found it to be very interesting, and very useful. [This message was edited by John Bushouse on 31 October 2005 at 04:49 AM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 31 Oct 2005 5:12 am

Charlie ... that type of 3 string slant ... the "Split Slant" ... has been utilized for many, many years ...

But perfected to the n-th degree by Jerry Byrd.

Basically ... the nose of the bullet bar is situated between the 1st and 2nd strings (in question #8) ... and then the forward slant is employed to "catch" the bottom note.

It's a very useful slant ... especially in C6 tuning ... augmented, diminished and 9th chords (or at least pieces of them) ... can be achieved using it.

Examples:
<pre>

Here's F augmented:

E ---- 5 ----- 9 ---- 13 ---- 17 ---
C ---- 5 ----- 9 ---- 13 ---- 17 ---
A ---- 4 ----- 8 ---- 12 ---- 16 ---

Here's F Diminished:

E -----------------------------------------
C ---- 5 ----- 8 ---- 11 ---- 14 ----17 ---
A ---- 5 ----- 8 ---- 11 ---- 14 ----17 ---
G ---- 4 ----- 7 ---- 10 ---- 13 ----16 ---

Here's a G9 :

E ------ 5 ----------------------------
C ------ 5 ----------------------------
A -------------------------------------
G ------ 4 ----------------------------

</pre>

As far as (lo to hi) vs (hi to lo) ...

I usually write out tunings (lo to hi) ... but since most folks seem to prefer the opposite ...

I figured I'd better write it like that for this "quiz" ...

For what it's worth ... here is some info about "theory" directly applied to steel guitar ...

Steel Stuff

It utilizes the "Number System" (I'm a big fan) ...

It's basically just my "notes" that I put together years ago ... to try and figure out this "music stuff" ...

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Aiello's House of Gauss


My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 31 October 2005 at 05:58 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 31 Oct 2005 6:45 am

John, when you mention ii & vi chords, are they the minor chords of the scale?

John Bushouse · Post by **John Bushouse** » 31 Oct 2005 8:11 am

Yup. In open G, only two notes of the chord, as a nice, full minor chord isn't available (unless you have a 6th tuning).[This message was edited by John Bushouse on 31 October 2005 at 08:13 AM.]

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 31 Oct 2005 10:14 am

Or,(in open G), you can play all 6 strings at the "relative major" chord position, for a minor7 chord, minus the root. (Which someone else is probably playing)

Open G= GBD, E minor= EGB E minor7= (E)GBD

You can sketch out the whole chord by playing the root on the 4th string two frets up, as in E minor7= 4th string, 2nd fret,then 3rd, 2nd, and 1st strings open. (Of course repeats at every chord position.)

It's pretty easy to remember that the three diatonic minor chords in each key are then found at the relative I, IV, and V positions for each key.

So a chord scale for G can be easily played:

G open strings 3,2,1.
Am 4th string 7th fret, 3rd and 2nd strings 5th fret. ("C" fret)
Bm 4th string 9th fret, 3rd and 2th strings 7th fret. ("D" fret)
C 5th fret strings 3,2,1.
D 7th fret strings 3,2,1.
Em 4th string 14th fret, 3rd and 2nd strings 12th fret. ("G" fret)
Finishing up with an F#mb5 chord at: 3rd string 11th fret, 2nd and 1st strings 10th fret.
Taking us back to G at 12th fret strings 3,2,1.

Since these are all notes of the G scale, all of these positions are usable over nearly every (diatonic) chord in key of G songs. Or for dorian soloing over Am, aeolian soloing over Em, etc. etc.

Try for instance using the F#mb5 position as an addition or substitute for the V chord, ie; D moving back to G. Loads of great stuff here.

(This is for open G tuning, not the open E of Rick's original thread question. Of course the same patterns hold true, just all moved one string lower. Tuning hijack!)
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
 [This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 31 October 2005 at 10:22 AM.]

George Rout · Post by **George Rout** » 31 Oct 2005 11:51 am

Gosh, I guess my playing by ear is much easier than all that theory stuff. It's also easier for this blind guy!!! Geo

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 31 Oct 2005 12:48 pm

Well, I sure wish I could do that. I seem to have an ear for all the wrong notes.

George Rout · Post by **George Rout** » 31 Oct 2005 2:42 pm

You be nice to me Howard, or I'll bequeath my eyes to you!!!! Geo