Jerry Garcia

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 11 Oct 2005 3:52 am

Thanks Bobby and Dave for picking up the ball. I feel restored.

Average painters and players don't inspire controversy beyond their lifetimes.
To say that one is average is to put them in the mainstream. Neither Garcia nor Picasso were mainstream.

To say that an artist is average because there is somebody better is a quantitave assessment that casts aspersions on us all. I can think of three pedal steelers/forum members who are readily known by only their initials. Is everybody else average because these three are better? And what is average?
Quantitative and qualitative assessments do not mix.

I am enriched because there are so many here who are good. I gain appreciation of the steel guitar by exposure to the many that are different. I learn by the appreciation of small differences in style.
Better and best are terms only I can apply to myself.
Picasso and Michelangelo, Garcia and Emmons, they're apples, oranges, kiwis, and pears.

"The Grateful Dead are dead, and we're grateful." --National Lampoon, "Lemmings"
"I come here to bury Jerry, not to praise him." --me

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 11 Oct 2005 5:20 am

To Jeff Lampert:

Jeff, re-read the second paragraph of my last post. Art is an idea or concept. The best an artist can hope for regarding his art is that his audience correctly translates the intent of the idea or concept. Incidently, art in this distilled description can communicate all emotions from joy to disdain. It just depends upon what the artist intended to convey.

And yes, the works of Emmons, Franklin, Jernigan, Chalker and Green are all highly artistic and are executed with a degree of technique the rest of us strive for. But the kernel of their art would be the same without their incredible technique. Because they combine great art with great technique their works are examples of the sublime.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn[This message was edited by Glenn Suchan on 11 October 2005 at 11:24 AM.]

Charles French · Post by **Charles French** » 11 Oct 2005 5:21 am

Your all wrong!
Monet was the BEST!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 11 Oct 2005 6:21 am

Ya know.
And ya don't know.

Jerry wasn't perfect,
there are some who think he was.
That's their problem.

I like a lot of what he did, on
MOSTANY INSTRUMENT HE RECORDED WITH.
But not all of it, on any instrument he touched either.

Some of his recordings are classics in the cannon of
The musical form they were sprung from.

This is not the cannon of many steel guitarists... so what.
It doesn't diminish what he acomplished.

If those predomiately from other music playingfields,
don't care to take the time to listen to
ALL the directions he took at various times,
and solely form opinions based on one or two songs they have heard...
well THAT is THIER loss.

For me Workingmans Dead will ALWAYS be a classic country album. With some other inffluences thrown in.

Not staying locked into only one prevailing vision of what country music should be.

Lloyd and Jay Dee also played on albums of that period that pushed the envelope a bit.
Such as Sweetheart Of The Rodeo.
Which I love.

But find doesn't stand up quite as well these days,
as the CSNY Album with Teach Your Children.

If some vision obscured deadhead wants to say
JG was "The Greatest Steel Player Ever".

There also seems to be someone equaly blinded to JG's other steel cuts
and general musical cannon, to say he sucked.

I think they BOTH would be wrong.

All in all Heronimous Bosch had more to say,
But I prefer Demuth, and Elizabeth Vigie Le Brun.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 October 2005 at 07:24 AM.]

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 11 Oct 2005 9:34 am

If Jerry were in a position to look down from somewhere and read these threads-I'm sure he'd get a big kick out of it.

There was the time, in about '93 that some members of the Dead sang the National Anthem at the Giants opening day. Some of the great Giants of the past were there, and when someone wanted to introduce Jerry to Willie Mays, Willie blew him off-he needed to get in a golf car and off to the day's next event for the Giants alumni.

Jerry laughed about it, because in his latter years so many people were constantly tugging on his shirt from all directions-he thought it was actually kind of cool to get blown off by the great Mays.

I don't remember the exact quote, but when asked why he gave up the pedal steel, Garcia responded with something like "it would take a whole other lifetime to master it."

When the Dead were on, and thoroughly plugged into the groove-the moments from those concerts were some of the greatest musical moments of my life.

"There is nothing in the world like a Grateful Dead concert."

"They're not just the best at what they do-they're the only ones that do what they do."

The bumper sticker and the banner quoted above say it all for me. And if you were never there to catch some of that magic-then you will never know what you missed.

He will always be one of my favorites, pedal steel or not.

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Mark
[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 11 October 2005 at 10:37 AM.][This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 11 October 2005 at 10:38 AM.]

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 11 Oct 2005 1:11 pm

You go Mark!

Brad

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 11 Oct 2005 5:02 pm

Dave Grafe, ya! that one note, I thought it was genius! so simple yet effective

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 11 Oct 2005 5:55 pm

I can't believe I read this whole thing!

Actually, I was gonna continue to blow it off but Perlowin called me today and talked about it so I somehow felt wierdly compelled to read it.

I remember a day in 1971 when I was gonna play at the Jack O' Diamonds Club in Palmdale CA with Garland Frady, my buddy who was as stone-cold a hardcore, greasy-haired, pack-of-Camels-rolled-up-in-short-sleeved-shirt, redneck from Alabama as could possibly be, and a great singer and songwriter.

I stopped at his house in the Valley to pick him up for the gig, and he said "I want you to listen to the greatest steel guitar solo I've ever heard." He then played me TYC. I told him I'd spent the last few years trying to learn how NOT to play like that.

Garland was a redneck genius (RIP, my friend), he saw what a lot of y'all see in that solo. In the retrospectroscope of 35 years, it seems like a pretty good solo, though I wouldn't expect "4 Wheel Drive" to be the follow up single.

Hey guys. Music isn't a zero-sum game, where for Garcia to *win,* Emmons/Green/Chalker/et al. have to *lose.* Only when we speak in terms of absolutes, like "greatest," "most influential," etc. do we get in trouble, it seems.

I agree with a lot of what was said by Donny, by Jeff, by Glenn, by b0b, and others... but not all. That's just MHO, anyway.

Incidentally and off-topically, this forum is one of the most polite, well-moderated forums in cyberspace. I visit (but refrain from posting on) one particular bass fishing forum... not moderated it seems... in which guys regularly call each other moron, idiot, imbecile, liar, traitor, bastard, "enemy of our country," "I fart on you and your opinions," "you better not ever meet me face to face," ad nauseum and it's really disturbing to see how animalistic and threatening forums can be.

This place is like kindergarten, dudes.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 11 October 2005 at 07:00 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 11 Oct 2005 6:03 pm

Oh shut up.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 11 Oct 2005 6:12 pm

Now that you explain it that way, Jimbeaux, I'll refrain from further comment. I applaud your clarity and concise delivery.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 11 Oct 2005 7:05 pm

A duel is in order.
Texas vs Phillie!

Overtuned 3rd strings @ 1 meter.
Ready your B pedals.
Aim,
FIRE!!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 October 2005 at 08:08 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 11 Oct 2005 11:04 pm

Well Herb, you should not be so surprised, bass fishing is a pretty volatile subject...

Amazing, isn't it?

Sherman Willden · Post by **Sherman Willden** » 12 Oct 2005 1:15 am

Check out the poker forums twoplustwo and rec.gamblong.poker. Talk about idiots who say anything and everything. Many of todays poker players think that they have to be the in-your-face types. Most of the old school still show each other the respect they each deserve, but boy the new guys .....

Sherman

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 12 Oct 2005 8:13 am

b0b and David Grafe!

You guys always seem to speak my mind

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 12 Oct 2005 1:13 pm

Herb, don't stop now. The story line was so fantastic that I could almost smell the Brylcreme in the rednaeck's hair and the camel smoke impregnated in his T-shirt. Surely there is more.

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 12 Oct 2005 1:38 pm

I think I've read this whole thread and no-one mentioned that Jerry had been playing about nine months when he cut that solo.

Jerry told me he'd wait until next lifetime to really study the pedal steel. I wonder if he's playing a D-10 or a S-12.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 13 Oct 2005 9:39 am

Back in the late 60's and the 70's when I was a Deadhead/Garcia fan, I would see a lot of beautiful colors when I would go see them. This must prove that they were great art.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 13 Oct 2005 11:57 am

I always refer to the interview with Jerry in Guitar Player, April 1971. Rather than arguing for the millionth time about how good/bad a steel player he was, do yourselves a favor and try to dig up a copy of that one, it covers about everything in his own words.
BTW, my favorite is still the first NRPS record.

Joe H. (forty year old hippie)

Tim Bridges · Post by **Tim Bridges** » 13 Oct 2005 12:45 pm

I'll be the first to admit that I have always liked The Grateful Dead. Yes, I've been to their concerts, but never took the trip. Yes, CSNY I have always liked as well. Buddy Emmons,yes I like him also. Along with Franklin, Ruggs, Chalker, Stafford, The Beatles. Granted, there are "styles" that I don't really care for at all. Does that mean that the band, or the individual isn't any good? NO!!! It means it doesn't suit MY preference. Does anyone else really have THE OPINION that trumps all other opinions?

APPRECIATION. Why not appreciate the contributions we all make in this world? Heck, it puzzles me to this day how anyone can listen to hip-hop, or metal. BUT, it's OK. If they like it and it brings no harm, I hope they enjoy it and are inspired. I sit upstairs 3-4 nights a week listening to my sons band. They're loud, the style is not what I PREFER, but I do recognize the tallent and their enjoyment. Thank God for Freedom.

[This message was edited by Tim Bridges on 16 October 2005 at 12:44 PM.]