Jerry Garcia

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 7 Oct 2005 1:25 pm

My gripe about Garcia is not actually about him, but about he fact that many rock fans think that he is (or was) the world's greatest steel player, and they praise him while dismissing people like Buddy Emmons and Lloyd Green as hacks.

Same thing with George Harrison being called the world's greatest sitar player.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 7 Oct 2005 1:51 pm

. . . if you can't say something nice about someone, say nothing at all

Cherry Garcia is my favorite Ben & Jerry's flavor.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Roger Kelly · Post by **Roger Kelly** » 7 Oct 2005 1:55 pm

There's one thing I'll say for Jerry Garcia..he tried to get Jerry Byrd to give him lessons, as Jerry Byrd stated in his book, "It Was A Trip" but Byrd couldn't work it out.[This message was edited by Roger Kelly on 11 October 2005 at 05:55 AM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 7 Oct 2005 1:58 pm

Too small & too blurry for me... or maybe it's just my old eyes...

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 7 Oct 2005 2:09 pm

I'm glad there are two Bobs here that think it sounded OK. I know I wasn't that stoned then.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 7 Oct 2005 3:39 pm

I don't hear pitchy on Teach, "I don't know you" is pitchy. Teach is a great song, made up of great parts, of which the steel is only one.
There is an innocence to that intro that no amount of practicing could "teach". I also like the stacato sound of the picking, and the phrasing. Could anybody here have come up with a more perfect part? I doubt it. JP

Alex Piazza · Post by **Alex Piazza** » 7 Oct 2005 4:46 pm

Both sides are wrong on this issue. Yeah, hippies suck . They are stupid and they smell bad. What you have to understand is that hippies only know jam bands. Worst of all they think jam bands are the only real bands. So the only PS players they will know are jerry garcia (maybee), and robert randolph. And thats retarded.
However, people who sit around and knit pick other steelers abilities are stupid to. who gives a s--- about the frequencies on some dudes session. Or whatever. If it sounds good it sounds good. Its not subjective. Here in the dirty south thats whats called being a player hater. Jerry might not have known his way around the steel as well as some geek living in his parents basement studying licks all day that can talk smack on the internet. However, he was a great musician that had a great sound on just about any instrument. He did some great PS stuff. But I geuss the most important point to get across is that hippies suck, and im a loser for getting on the internet and saying that. This is my first chat and i feel like ive entered into a whole new world of geekness.

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 7 Oct 2005 4:51 pm

the tone he got was great I thought, not like the chorus and doubling effect which was so common out of Nashville shortly after, Garcia nailed that tune, he never claimed to be a techno wizard, it's a classic, get used to it, my favorite player, not nearly, again the foolish confound the wise

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 7 Oct 2005 4:56 pm

I always loved his playing.

And his music.

I'm Republican though, so I'm not exactly "mainstream" around here.....

Great thread.

EJL

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 7 Oct 2005 5:13 pm

Hippies in general don't suck. Ignorant people who think they know more a subject that people who have studied it, suck. That includes some hippies, as well as some people from every other walk of life.

In another thread on this same subject, I wrote about the responses I received on a guitar board for saying that Garcia was not the world's greatest steel player. Some of those responses were along the lines of "if this guy Lloyd Green is so great, how come I never heard of him?" or "Why didn't CSNY use him instead?"

Most of the people on this board are not hippies, but Gen X ers and/or younger. All the hippies are now middle aged and most of us are a lot wiser than we were 40 years ago.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 7 Oct 2005 6:09 pm

Listen to "The Wheel". Great tone, execution, and most importantly artistic interpetation. I would take Garcia's recorded playing over 90% of the recorded steel players today. The man was an artistic genious, not rapped up by how many knee levers he has on his guitar.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 7 Oct 2005 6:48 pm

What most players here fail to understand...through simple lack of exposure...is that Garcia's steel playing sounded a lot like his electric guitar playing - same timing, phrasing, "conversational" quality. Which also sounded like his banjo playing. Which also sounded like his acoustic guitar playing.

The point is the man had a style and taste, not great technical ability.

I'll take a player always who has style and taste over some technician who is perfectly in tune, plays all the right notes - but has no heart in his playing.

I've seen, for example, some pretty good guitar players go to the Musician's Institute in Hollywood. They graduate as technically-superior, proficient payers who can play anything.

And sound like dog poop doing it, because there's just no soul or fire in it. More than one good player ruined by more concern for technical ability than being a musician.

I'm a new steel player. I'm a hack. But right now, all I want to do is play ONE really good note. Later I'll make it two. I'll never be the match for 99% of you technically, and I could not care less.

I just want to sound like me and have it mean something to whoever happens to care to listen.

That's what I think Garcia did for his *intended* audience.

Jim

"no chops, but great tone"[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 07 October 2005 at 07:50 PM.]

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 7 Oct 2005 6:55 pm

I'll go with what Kevin H. said, but I personally like "Last Lonely Eagle" just because it makes me feel good.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 7 Oct 2005 6:58 pm

Bob (Doran), the answer to your question 'why is this said?' is because it's true. Period.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 7 Oct 2005 7:19 pm

"why is this said?' is because it's true. Period."

Gosh Barry - didn't know you spoke for the entire planet.

See, it's *exactly* that kind of comment that shows how some people just refuse to hear superior musicianship (note - I did not say technical ability, and there's a gigantic difference) if it comes from an unexpected...or disliked...source.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 7 Oct 2005 8:36 pm

I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm outa here.

[This message was edited by James Morehead on 08 October 2005 at 06:16 AM.]

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 7 Oct 2005 8:58 pm

Jim S.,

Teach Your Children is IMO beautiful steel playing. HOWEVER, anyone who thinks that technique is not critical based on one solo is EXTREMELY mistaken. For every piece of famous recorded music that is very musical if not technically very proficient, there are probably hundreds of pieces of equally wonderful music in which the technical proficiency is vital to expressing the soulfulness of the piece. To take one isolated example such as Teach Your Children and let it form the basis of your approach to your musicianship is short-sighted, IMO. With regards to pedal steel, you should add several albums by Emmons, Green, Chalker, Jernigan, etc. so that the importance of technical virtuosity is factored into your apporach.

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Jeff's Jazz

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 7 Oct 2005 10:34 pm

Garcia's ending "cliche" lick was the cornerstone of the CBC's sign-off segment for alot of years.
I'd venture the guess that it is at least as recognizeable to Canadians as the Hinterland Who's Who commercials, with their signal call preceeding information regarding the natural habitat of the Beaver.
et al....
-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

Matt Price · Post by **Matt Price** » 7 Oct 2005 11:44 pm

With all due respect, I believe your all mistaken......

Jimmy Page is the greatest pedal steel player ever.

Just check out "Your Time Is Gonna Come".....talk about great intonation......

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 8 Oct 2005 2:22 am

But right now, all I want to do is play ONE really good note. -- Jim Sliff

Surely we can all say that Jerry Garcia accomplished that.
I'm with you, Jim; still looking for that note.

BTW, there haven't been any hippies for decades.
Let's let them ALL R.I.P.
"Make love, not war."[This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 08 October 2005 at 03:23 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 8 Oct 2005 3:14 am

Whatever Garcia was or wasn't, regardless of how many times forum members have gone to war over him,.....to this day he still generates at least a couple of thread pages at the mention of his name.

Perhaps anything ZB related has longevity.

Perhaps somebody deep rooted (Ed Packard comes to mind) in engineering, will prove this scientifically.

Until then, my life is incomplete.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 8 Oct 2005 4:19 am

"To take one isolated example such as Teach Your Children and let it form the basis of your approach to your musicianship is short-sighted, IMO"

If you really read my post I wasn't doing that (although certainly others may have). I was saying that Essentially saying that a piece is music garbage because it wasn't tecnically perfect is completeyl flawed analysis...unless you base your entire analysis of *music* on technical perfection.

If you do, I feel sorry for you, for you would absolutely detest junk like...oh, Chuck Berry, The Stones and many others.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 8 Oct 2005 6:04 am

Sorry Jim, I didn't realize that technical ability wasn't a component of 'superior musicianship.'In that case, I guess one could surmise that 'Wipe Out' is a friggin' masterpiece!

Jon Bergh · Post by **Jon Bergh** » 8 Oct 2005 6:26 am

I can't believe I read this far...

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 8 Oct 2005 6:29 am

Barry,- technical mastery with no heart leaves me cold. All heart with no technique usually leaves me embarassed...
I guess we all want to reach a level where the two combine, but if I have to choose between them I'd rather listen to the player who puts all of his soul into his performance but stumbles and sometimes fall in the process.

I believe that's what Jim's trying to say, there's nothing wrong with technical mastery (now that would be something!) but without the personal and emotional part it soon becomes boring and cold.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 08 October 2005 at 07:31 AM.]