Am I the only dummy ?

Richard Sevigny · Post by **Richard Sevigny** » 26 Oct 2005 5:40 pm

Lots of wisdom on this page! Ed, just because you have no formal musical education doesn't make you stupid. The fact that you're able to play the steel and figure tunes says that you know some theory. You just haven't had the opportunity to weigh it down with gobbledygook

I've been playing regular guitar over 30 years, with a heavy dose of slide thrown in. It's only in the last year I've picked up the steel and only started lessons in the last few months.

Theory is just nother way of saying "this is how this works". The jargon that's used is sometimes intimidating, though I read Guitar Player for 15 years and managed to pick up a fair bit of it. Even now, I couldn't play an Aeolian mode if I was asked, though could probably pick one out if the music "sounded" like it needed it.

I'm like a lot of the guys here. I play 'cuz it's fun and it makes me feel good. If it makes others feel good and I can make a bit of coin at it once in a while, that's icing on the cake.

Keep playing Ed, that's all that really matters.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 26 Oct 2005 8:37 pm

My read on music theory.

If it sounds good, play it!
If it blends well, play it!
If it feels good, play it!
If you don't know the chord's name, make one up!
If you really feel you must know it, read up on it!
If you really enjoy your playing, enjoy it!

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 26 October 2005 at 09:38 PM.]</p></FONT>

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 26 Oct 2005 9:03 pm

To each his own.

I believe that was the name of a song.

Aloha,
Don

Andre Nizzari · Post by **Andre Nizzari** » 27 Oct 2005 5:46 am

As a blues player.....the more you know....the worst off you are....with the blues....it all in the feelin' not the ability to play every scale and mode....just think if elmore james read theory.......it would sound like crap.

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http://www.andreandthenighthounds.com/

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 27 Oct 2005 6:14 am

Andre, just because you know it, doesn't mean you have to play it. This is what 'taste' (which is something that can't be taught) is all about.

Knowing the theory of music in no way inhibits a player from playing from the heart, unless that player just doesn't have it. I'm very well tutored (self-tutored) in music theory, but I've used my ears for my whole career. I'll put them up against anyone's.

Andre Nizzari · Post by **Andre Nizzari** » 27 Oct 2005 6:39 am

Ypur right Mike that theory and playin from the heart are two different things...but still the blues I like, not that west coast highly productive influenced jazz hybrid crap...I'm talking bout early chicago and mississippi blues...most of these players learned how to play by watchin and listenting to other "blues men" they weren't in classes learning theory...so what I'm trying to say..take Albert King...the guy took his guitar and flipped it around and left the bass strings on the top..he plays his signature riffs over and over, the same with elmore james, jb hutto, r.l. burnside, fred mcdowell, earl hooker...and many others...that's
the reason they all stand out from one another,they all got there signature riffs that they repeat over an over again..that's what made blues player what they are...and yes they were very limited in music theory. But your right Mike, it should be a matter but I would suspect if these blues men i was referimng to new more theory, they wouldn't be who they are...that's my opinion...take it or leave it.

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http://www.andreandthenighthounds.com/

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 27 Oct 2005 6:50 am

"..not that west coast highly productive influenced jazz hybrid crap..."

You mean like Robben Ford? He's got signature licks and a unique style that separate him from the pack (though there are plenty of imitators) and can play over changes.

I love Robben's playing as much as I love Albert's. Neither are "better", but they're different. Each has something to say, which is what it's all about.

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 27 Oct 2005 7:06 am

Ed started this thread with a simple statement and followed with a question.

The Statement: "But then when I try to read information regarding music theory on various web sites it just brings me down . There is such a massive flow of verbiage and technical jargon that my eyes glaze over ! "

The Question: "How different am I ? Is it a natural matter of course that everyone reads and understands all this as part of learning to play the instruments?"

My previous post was addressed to these two aspects of the thread. Music theory is certainly not a necessity for one to play an instrument and play it well. Some folks have a talent that does not require them to know what a BbSus4 is in order they play an instrument. Simple fact.

Too, assuming that a person who can play an instrument is a "musician", then there are certainly several examples in our musical world that are indelible proof "it is not necessary to be well versed in music theory" in order to be classified as a "musician". I'm not even sure if an outstanding knowledge of the art makes one play better, or even makes it more enjoyable. I thought this was the facet that Ed wanted addressed.
Phred

Andre Nizzari · Post by **Andre Nizzari** » 27 Oct 2005 7:13 am

yeh Bill like Robben Ford, yeh he's good, but I don't like the high produced music that's backing him up...and that singer is not my style of blues...but I guess it sound good to you and that's all that really matters anyway...opinions are like %&*holes, everyone got one.

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 27 Oct 2005 7:26 am

Andre, I agree with you about Robben's production and albums. I rarely listen to them, and when I want to hear blues these days, I'll more than likely go listen to Albert, Freddie, T-Bone and the like. Mostly though when I need a fix of soulful playing I reach for a Sacred Steel CD...

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 27 Oct 2005 11:13 am

I'm with Andre on this too. If you learn it you want to play it; Robben Ford, as good as he is technically, is not a blues player as much as he is a rock player. The blues stuff that stands the test of time is generally a bit more rough around the edges than most folks can get comfortable with. T-Model Ford, RL Burnside, Guitar Slim... not a lot of theory there. Just good music.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 27 Oct 2005 11:44 am

The blues stuff that stands the test of time is generally a bit more rough around the edges than most folks can get comfortable with.

You mean, like Bessie Smith and Ma Rainey and Louis Armstrong's Hot Five and King Oliver...? That's blues, my man.

Chuck Fisher · Post by **Chuck Fisher** » 27 Oct 2005 12:52 pm

I played for years without understanding what notes or chords I was playing, I knew what key I was in usually but most was by ear. Try teaching a band a song from there. If you have a record they can hear, good, but what if you made the song up? Theory allows you to understand what to call things you do so you can communicate with others.

You can also use it as a starting point for improvising parts, especially handy for playing unrehearsed in public, it makes "clinkers" less likely.

Knowing how to communicate like this makes working with keyboard players much easier and may help you get and keep gigs.

Just my 2 cents...

Bill Blacklock · Post by **Bill Blacklock** » 27 Oct 2005 5:43 pm

Ed,
The funny thing about learning theory later in your musical life is, you probaobly already know It anyway. Now it just has a label. Im sure that holds true for alot of the old blues cats. Stinky notes are still minor thirds no matter what you call them.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 27 Oct 2005 10:29 pm

Think of it as a dictionary. The more musical 'words' you know in your brain (even if you can hear it, theory helps you think outside what you hear too),, the more you have to draw from toward musical eloquence.

Dan Peterson · Post by **Dan Peterson** » 28 Oct 2005 8:38 am

This says it all ...thanks to 'SG-Forumite' Larry Robbins a couple of days ago!
(It's become my credo..

All of us are born
with music inside us
some play it
some ignore it
and some never hear it......
Dont leave this earth with
the music still inside you.....

Arthur Herrmann · Post by **Arthur Herrmann** » 30 Oct 2005 6:23 pm

There is no right path in life or music. I have been deeply moved in my life by highly technically accomplished guitarists like Joe Pass who clearly knew much about theory. I also get off on naturally gifted noise makers like Houndog Taylor who only knew how to play in the key of E. The important thing is playing with feeling and honesty whether your genre is blues, folk, jazz, Hawaiian and whether you studied at Julliard or played in a road house shack at night after working in the fields all day. As Robert Duval's character said in one of my favorite films, Tender Mercies, "just play it like you feel it."