Am I the only dummy ?

Ed Altrichter · Post by **Ed Altrichter** » 26 Oct 2005 3:30 am

I have a lot of fun playing blues, western swing, country and pop songs in various 6th and open tunings on my SuperSlide, Dobro and National reso! I can play all day and it leaves me exhilerated !
But then when I try to read information regarding music theory on various web sites it just brings me down . There is such a massive flow of verbiage and technical jargon that my eyes glaze over !
To make an analogy, it's as if one spent an entire day riding a Harley, having such an excellent time, then goes home and reads article after technical article about the operation and workings of motorcycles that are so arcane and involved that they make one feel that he understands so little about it that he shouldn't even ride at all !
I am 64 years old and live in the hinterlands. No one except a few friends will ever hear me play. I will never learn how to read tab or music notes. I will never know music theory.
I play my guitars for fun . . . Ghost Riders! Greensleeves! Faded Love!
Steel Guitar Rag! On and on . . .
How different am I ? Is it a natural matter of course that everyone reads and understands all this as part of learning to play the instruments?

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 26 Oct 2005 3:33 am

I hope thats not the only way to play a steel guitar. If so I'm in serious trouble.

To answer your question, no, you're not the only one so don't feel lonely at all.

Rick

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 26 Oct 2005 3:53 am

ED, if your having fun and playing what you want for yourself, then you're doing fine.

From the other side of the coin, though: Imagine you're out on your Harley having a great time, but you only know of one road. Everyday it's the same road, back and forth. Think of music theory as a road atlas, and try to imagine the countless journeys you could take.

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 26 Oct 2005 4:02 am

Ed, just keep on keepin' on. One of the most adept persons I ever met teaching music theory had to be classified as one of the worst players on this earth. That's certainly not painting all theorists with a broad brush, but it's indicative of the fact that a good theorist is not always a good player.

I, too, play with the idea that it not only pleases those who listen, but it's for my self satisfaction also. I've never done a tab in my life and don't intend to. I'm blessed, however, with a good memory and usually after 2 or 3 times hearing a new song to me, I can play most of it. Maybe not doing Tab takes me a little more woodshed time, but strangely enough I like to woodshed, so be it.

I would wager there are a couple of name players who don't have extensive music theory training also. Heck man, just turn the other cheek, and enjoy what you've been doing. Sounds like a plan to me.

Phred

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"From Truth, Justice is Born"--Quanah Parker-1904

Alan Kirk · Post by **Alan Kirk** » 26 Oct 2005 4:55 am

The idea that dots on paper is "music" is promoted by the condescending Classical music freaks. Music notation has only been around for about 1,000 years. People were making music long before the snooty crowd claimed supremecy and proceeded to make themselves feel better by putting down those who didn't grok dots on paper.

That being said, music notation is shorthand method for communicating about music.

I taught college level intro to music theory for four years. Being able to read music has nothing to do with practical musicianship and musicality. It's an add-on.

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Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 26 Oct 2005 5:02 am

just like you Ive played all my life with out theroy knowledge.
then while looking at the fretboard on my lap steel I wondered why that slant works in one place and not another.
then I checked out theory and found it to be hugely confusing.
I take it in small doses and apply what I want to what I am doing or thinking.
it can be simple.as simple as Do Re Mi.

I bet you know more about theory than you think.

either way, receiving enjoyment and satisfaction ffrom playing is what it is all about in the end.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 26 Oct 2005 5:28 am

There are those who have natural ability and can play what they hear, whether it's in their heads or from a recording. They have a natural sense of rythymn, timing and can play in a group situation.

Unfortunately, I'm not one of those who can do that. It takes me forever to pick out a melody and chords. So, learning standard notation has enabled me to learn songs and understand how they are constructed.

This makes my playing much more enjoyable and keeps my learning on the correct course.

I'm all for theory, as long as it doesn't get in the way of playing, which I can understand how that happens. You end up not seeing the forest through the trees.

Mark Vinbury · Post by **Mark Vinbury** » 26 Oct 2005 5:30 am

I see it this way- The musicians that get my attention all seem to know somthing about this stuff.They either get it through "osmosis" or by book learning.
I've tried to avoid it for 40 years and the upshot is my playing bores me.I feel a need to look outside myself for new info, challenges and inspiration.
It's like eating my own cooking.After a while I need to get a recipe book to find somthing else to chew on.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 26 Oct 2005 5:33 am

When I first picked up a steel/dobro back in the 70s, I learned a lot of tunes. First bluegrass, and then I found a guy who played dobro & trumpet. He taught me swing tunes, Rose Room, Cherokee, Huneysuckle Rose, San Antonio Rose (a lot of roses), Way Down Yonder in New Orleans, etc....

I knew the mechanics of how to play these songs. He taught me some hot licks. I knew where to place my bar and where to pick, but I didn't know why. Then, I became involved in other walks of life and put my guitars down for 15 years.

When I rekindled my interest and picked it back up (thanks to Brad's Page of Steel), I had forgotten everything, which were mechanical positions. It was like I had never played. Everything was a blank. Sure, I was able to pick up the bluegrass tunes with some work, but it wasn't what I wanted to play so I canned that.

I feel that if I had taken the time to learn some theory back then, I would have had a foundation of which to continue the swing tunes and the music that is more than 3 major triads.

This time around, I'm doing just that.[This message was edited by HowardR on 26 October 2005 at 06:42 AM.]

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » 26 Oct 2005 6:33 am

I think it was Mississippi John Hurt (when asked if he could read music) that said, "Not so's that it interferes with my playing."

Count me as another who has tried to learn some theory (or even chord names!) and has had a rough time of it. I really would like to know more and am sure it would help my playing. (at this point anything would help!

)

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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 26 Oct 2005 7:17 am

When I set out to read some notation in order to learn how to play some chords & harmony, I'm using theory. Once I learn that and am comfortable, I don't think about it when I'm playing. It becomes more of a natural experience, but I do need that book learning to get there.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 26 Oct 2005 7:58 am

Personally ... if I'm interested in something ...

I'll read, research, watch, listen ... do whatever it takes ... to learn as much as I can about it.

If I'm not interested ... I don't give it a second thought.

What bothers me ... is people who belittle others for studying up on topic.

For instance ... I could give a rat's @$$ about computer programming ...

But I would never make fun of the Nerds that do ...

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Aiello's House of Gauss


My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 26 Oct 2005 8:16 am

Hey!!!!

Computer programming saved my life when I was 29 years old. The $80 a week I was making as a musician at age 19 just didn't cut it at 29. I went back to school and got a degree in programming (only took me a year because I already had a bachelors).

Programming has allowed me pay my rent, contribute to raising a family (two income family) AND continue playing music whenever I want AND buy some pretty cool instruments.

I know what you mean though Rick, I'm playing with you.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 26 Oct 2005 8:17 am

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 13 November 2005 at 12:16 PM.]

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 26 Oct 2005 9:18 am

The purpose of learning and applying music theory is to train your ears. If you have the time and inclination is is the quickest and most effective way. But it is not the only way.

Paul Arntson · Post by **Paul Arntson** » 26 Oct 2005 10:01 am

Ed - if you are happy with your playing, who cares about 'music theory'?
Personally, I like to tinker and analyze as much as I like to play, so to me it's like a cool puzzle. But I try not to let it get in the way of making sounds that appeal to other people's emotions.

(I meant Ed from Minn not Ed from CA - sorry. No offense intended.)[This message was edited by Paul Arntson on 26 October 2005 at 12:09 PM.]

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 26 Oct 2005 10:07 am

I also play by ear, and enjoy doing so....I can pick up a tune and learn it very fast without tab.....I do however enjoy SOME theory .....There are some things in theory that will make your playing by ear a lot easier .... The only proper training I have had in my life was 3 yrs of accordian ...The theory that I learned when I was 8 yrs old ( I'm 54 now ) has helped me with EVERY instrument that I have played from then on .... Whatever you do that allows you to enjoy music , is what is good for you .... If theory bore's you , and you don't like to deal with it , then don't !!....It's that simple ....When playing a song, with someone else, and they say to you " what chord was that ? " ....If you didn't know the chord, you would have to show them ...If you had enough theory behind you , you could tell them .... I think that knowlege is power , but if it get's in the way of enjoying one's self than it's power that you don't need to have .... So , if it feel's good , DO IT !!!..... You are NOT alone......Jim

Kevin Bullat · Post by **Kevin Bullat** » 26 Oct 2005 10:13 am

Hi, my name is Kevin and I'm an anti-theoryholic...

Well, I'm not completely anti-theory. I know about thirds and how chords are formed. I know about scales (and 3 modes!). But that's about it.

My stand-up bass player is a natural musician. He has perfect pitch, plays instruments I do even know the name of, and can remember a tune he player 30 years ago.

That's not me. I had to fight for every bit of musical ability I own. I practice 2 to 4 hours a day. But you know what? After 3 years I' getting there.

What was it that Ben Franklin said, something about genious being 1% inspriation and 99% perspiration.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 26 Oct 2005 10:44 am

er, that was constipation....

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 26 Oct 2005 10:49 am

Ride, he said.

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 26 Oct 2005 12:39 pm

ED,
NO......and you are in some pretty good company!!!!Just enjoy and dont wonder about the "why" thats just for them that needs to know...

All of us are born
with music inside us
some play it
some ignore it
and some never hear it......
Dont leave this earth with
the music still inside you.....

Dan Peterson · Post by **Dan Peterson** » 26 Oct 2005 1:11 pm

Had to smile when I read this Ed > :"Steel Guitar Rag! On and on . . .
How different am I ? Is it a natural matter of course that everyone reads and understands all this as part of learning to play the instruments?" < I'm just like you only a bout 4 years older. I learned the
old Oahu diagram method of 'steel' back in early 50's from a small group of traveling teachers who came to my little farm town to teach 'us kids' a 'new brand of guitar' ..Still have problems reading music or tabs, and play for myself (never out of the house..ha!) Continue to collect some Vintage (same age as me, even) steels and rattle off a pretty good Steel Guitar Rag or some of the Hawaiian songs I learned long ago! Keep on playin' Ed ...there's probably a ton of us out here ...Have fun with it and say hello anytime ..

(Heck I'm still trying to learn something about this dual 8 Magnatone Lyric doubleneck I couldn't resist recently). It's a whole different animal than my old fav 6 string Fender Stringmaster!

Michael Whitley · Post by **Michael Whitley** » 26 Oct 2005 4:09 pm

Ed, you said "it leaves me exhilerated." That's why I play. In my case, it's certainly not for the money. Theory makes me dizzy.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 26 Oct 2005 4:27 pm

As someone who went to Berklee College of Music and the New England Conservatory I can honestly say i am not snooty at all about what i know. I worked hard for it.

Going to that level says soemthing to me personally about my own commitment to the music profession. music is a language and to not know a certain amount is basically not knowimg a large part of the language.

however, i also play with many world music and tribal musicians who don't read and they have their own way of doing things. i respect what they have to offer. Comminicaiton is mroe fo an issue if we have to be in front fo each other to relay musical ideas. So it limtis learning each other's music unelss its' pre-recorded.

Here's the thing. everyoen CAN learn theory. it just needs to be taught to said person in the way they understand. reading music is like being literate in reading a book, etc.
it baffles me why people who are adverse to learning to read music never see the comparison to learning to read in general.

it should not be seen as evil nor shoudl it define you as a musical entity either.

The internet allows us to forget very easily that learning is a process that involves student and teacher and therefore, being self taught is the harder route to take (unless you get a sucky teacher). So it's natural that the information online may not be presented to your own individual learning style.
Theory is not some msyticlka thign reserved for snooty clasical musicians. it's just like English or any other language. Think about it, letters are just representation of sounds we make. Sounds that could be said to be musical.
My advice is set reasonable goals. talk with peopole, who may know more about the subject you're trying to learn and don't give. up Also remember the journey in life is in the trying.So keep at it.

Bill Blacklock · Post by **Bill Blacklock** » 26 Oct 2005 4:39 pm

Ed,
Like you I’m a self taught porch picker with about thirty five years of steel playing behind me. Over the last couple of years I’ve taken on the gruelling task (for me anyway) of learning the very basics of music theory. It has really been worth all the time and trouble (for me personally). I now understand how slants work and how majors can be played over minors but most of all it’s given me more pleasure in my playing.

I still do not read music or use tabs; I think it was my lack of musical theory that taught me to use my ears. I can usually figure out a song in my head before I sit down to the guitar. I have to admit that my taste in music is very simple and I do not have the capacity to listen to very complicated pieces of music. I believe that to much theory can often take away from the music, if I can’t tap my foot to it, it’s not music to me.

I do have lots of respect for anyone that has the ability to absorb musical theory but feel sorry for many people that have not learned to play by ear and can not deviate from that sheet of music in front of them. Music is different things to different people; what ever it takes to find the groove.