Never do this....

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

well I have been reluctant to state this out here for all to read..but my experience may save anothers SOUL....

a few months back while on a Nville trip we went downtown and I stopped by Roberts to see Jay Andrews play..by the way he was playing great...he was playing on what seemed to be a new EMMONS D10..not the old PP he has been sittin' behind
all the other times I had seen him play.

Well after a bit he says ..hey T. ..take these picks, come sit in....I must have had too many Beers because I said OK..

Something I have never done before..
unchartered territory...

Big Mistake..

So here I am sittin' behind his D10 Emmons, totally different than my D10 Carter..totally different in setup , feel, size, whatever...and then to make matters worse, who comes up to play Bass ? Eddie Lang.. oh great...

I am now on a foreign planet right there in front of my wife, friends, Eddie ( also my friend I guess ) the band and whoever may be living and breathing at Roberts...

So the band does the next best thing, they kick off a tune I have never heard in my entire life . I play, very low, no volume..can't find any notes..there were no notes to be found...

so much for the first tune..

Then the band continues with maybe two more songs it appeared I had no clue on..all while it seemed I had no clue about playing Jay's Steel..

after the "Incident" as I refer to it now..or perhaps "Lesson"...I look back and think.."What the heck was I thinkin' "...

David Spires told me that he did that once many years back, same thing..he called me a brave soul but also advised to NOT do that again..he wouldn't...Great advice buddy, just a week or two late !

My wife told me it was not as bad as I thought, but almost ..gee thanks....actually she said I was playing very tentative..very cautious...

Strange Guitar for me, Awkward Picks...songs I didn't know..

all that really adds up to

Big Mistake...

Jay and Eddie, if you are reading..
sorry dudes..

I am certainly not Loyd Green but I promise I really do know what the heck the A and B Pedals are for....

if you dare (or care) to see the photo...

TPrior/SteelGuitarWebsite

short clip from our current DEMO CD which is still in the can...
Workin' Man Blues

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 15 September 2005 at 03:44 AM.]

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

You should sit in on Smileys guitar just once. The best I remember he raises his 4th string on one knee lever but raises the 8th on another! Put that together with strange picks and a different guitar which is a single neck, no pad when you've been playing a D-10 for the last 20 years and you've got disaster. That was the first time I sat in on anybodys guitar in ages and the very last too.

Johnny Cox has played my guitar a number of times when I was playing the Emmons p/p's. He didn't like the pedal action and plays the Day set-up (kind of) but he could play mine. Charlie Day (Jimmys nephew and of course the Day set-up) used to play my guitar quite a bit and did alright too. I'm through with playing other peoples guitars!

[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 14 September 2005 at 01:34 PM.]

[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 14 September 2005 at 01:35 PM.]

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Tony
I never sit in on a guitar that's foreign to me, or with bands that do original material, for a couple of reasons.

First, I won't play my best and I don't want people in the audience hearing me at less than my best.

Secondly, the club owner or the audience is paying for a level of performance that I won't be able to deliver.

Thirdly, the rest of the band may suffer because a guy wants to sit in or the player asks someone to sit it without checking with the band leader or the rest of the band first.

A few guys... Johnny Cox comes to mind... can play anyone's guitar and sound great. I'm not one of them, so I don't ask to sit in anywhere, and if I'm asked and feel I can do the job with the band, I'll either have my own horn with me, or I'll politely refuse and explain why.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Frank..no doubt..

Herb....yes I agree 100%..

They were not original's they were playing just plain ole' typical Country Tunes..

This was the first time I have ever done this on Steel in my entire life...(not a young life either) I know better, knew better..shoulda' known better...all that stuff..

Now on the 6 string..thats a different deal they all got the same 6 strings and same frets.

Herb, give me your phone #, next time I have brain fatigue I'll call you and you can remind me of just what it is I'm gettin' myself into..and what the end will be..

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Joey, I think you and I should market the...

" Steelers Towel"

so we could "Throw it in " so to speak...

I mean, Bowlers have them....

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Great story T. !

I have a similar story from about five years ago. I was at L.T. Zinn's Grand Rapids show. Ed Fulawka had come that year and brought a new Crossover PSG that I wanted to try. He had it setup in his room.

So I go there, the guitar's not set for my long legs, so we have to tilt it a bit. It's not my setup, but I can get by.

There's also an acoustic guitar in the room and folks taking turns playing decent backup.

Don E. Curtis was also in the room. He's a great player, but I know him so I try not to be concerned.

Then Joe Wright walks in. I offer to let him try the Steel, but he declines and sits on the bed watching me closely and giving tips on my bar technique. I was beginning to feel the pressure. Joe picked up the acoustic guitar, and played backup for a few tunes. My "Fight or Flight" instincts were strongly suggesting a "flight response".

As I'm looking closely watching my hands on this unfamiliar instruments, I hear Joe shout, "Hey Hal, get in here!". The late/great Mr. Rugg was passing by in the hall, and joined us.

Joe calls out "When The Tingle Becomes A Chill" and begins playing it on flat top. I know that's a Hal Rugg classic. I also know I never played it before, and this was not the time to try.

That's when I got up and said
"someone else has to try this great guitar."

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

There are no mistakes. It is good to visit a foreign planet. No one's reputation was ever ruined on Rigel IV.
But I would never do it myself.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
Sitting in on strange steel ranks up there.
Tony to do that on the Avenue like that takes some stones. I didn't try.
Even though I DID play several electric and upright basses

When in doubt with 3 chords;
Use A B and find the F-lever before kick off.
You CAN find " A Way To Survive" like that.

My 1st time trying a PP was on a festival stage last 2 songs of the night in front of 500+ people in various states of inebriation.

I DIDN'T have time to find the F lever.
Well AB got me through it, and they kicked off another and gave me more solo time.

But then again I didn't get greedy for more lever and pedal power.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

David..

--------------------------------------------
When in doubt with 3 chords;
--------------------------------------------

I couldn't find the other two chords

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Well, please allow me to pose a question, possibly a naive one.....

Would knowing the C6 neck (assuming it's a D10) sans pedals be a life saver in a situation such as this?

Joy Wofford · From: Battle Creek, Michigan, USA

Hi Tony...got a question about this. Wouldn't your friend Jay, have KNOWN how difficult it was to sit-in on someone else's steel, and yet he kept inviting you to do it until you accepted? LOL, I think your sit-in was set-up.

Howard...inquiring minds want to know the answer to your question! Thanks for asking it.

Joy

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Howard not a dumb question..

It was not supposed to be a "situation"....

Joy....no no no no no....

If ya know Jay, he s very light hearted, funny, social,all that stuff..He didn't KEEP inviting me..he just asked if I wanted to sit in..like many have asked me to in the past....I gave him the WRONG answer

Please, this is not about JAY..it's about what I did..wrong road....

Jay is an aquaintence..I only know him by the few times I have met and seen him playing in Nville..This was NOT any sort of joke or setup..Jay is a Professional ..that is not something he would do..

It was not a question, at least for me at the time , of can I play and follow..

it was the mechanics, the Steel, the Picks..the lights, the everything around me...

it was more like a MOMENT...

If you are playing a song totally unheard of..it doesn't really matter much if you're not with the program on the C6 or the E9th...a tuning is a tuning...

What I did do was to revert to basic E9th..simple chord inversions etc....as I have done many times thru the years...

It was not like I was sitting there and nothing was happening..ya know Deer in the headlights look..

It was exactly like what Herb described above..I played..I played lousy..I played lousy on someone elses really nice Steel !

but no big deal..I lived...

It's got nothing to do with the Steel...or the tuning or which neck etc...

Would I do it again ? Most likely not..but if it was a Carter with my exact setup..and I had a few minutes to sit behind the Steel during a break or something..or even another brand where I did take a few momnets to "Learn" the Instrument...

who knows.. I am a glutten for punishment...

but clearly I shouldn't...

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 September 2005 at 07:33 AM.]

Howard Tate · From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA, R.I.P.

Joey, that must have been a rough experience, especially since Joe Wright is one of those that can play anyone steel, and do it without picks, and sound terrific. I saw him play Hal Higgin's Emmons like that, it sounded like he had been playing it for years.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

It wasn't really a rough experience, Howard.
It was just very interesting in a surreal way.

All these guys are very kind, even Joe.

On the subject of faking it using just AB pedals, Jeff Newman told a story about how Tom Brumley had to borrow a strange Steel when he was new with Buck Owens.

Buck wanted to do a session and Toms Steel was elsewhere. Tom played using only AB pedals.

That's how the classic "Together Again" Steel parts were created, all using only AB pedals.

Richard Bass · From: Sabang Beach, Philippines

Hi Tony, I remember some years ago being asked to sit in here in Nashville at a club. No problem , there was an extra Tele on stage so I went up to pick, UH OH the guitar had a B-Bender on it, never having played a guitar with a bender before I couldn't keep it still, so I was going in and out of tune for the entire ONE song I played before getting off stage. Of course it seemed that every lead player in town was out that night, pretty embarassing.Oh well I lived through it , but I definetly made sure what kind of guitar I was being asked to sit in on in the future.
Richard

George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

how is it that the pros can do it? i have heard many stories of Emmons setting in on this guys steel, or that ones steel..it must be foreign to them to..i mean i know they are great..but still, i couldn't walk up and drive a piece of heavy earth moving equipment, i bet Buddy couldn't either..maybe we just THINK, we sound so bad?

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

I made it a rule with myself to NEVER sit in on anyone else's guitar, and that meant the regular 6-string guitar, cuz when I did, I was always sorry.

Regarding steel, I wouldn't even consider it. Yet I stood a few feet away from Paul Franklin when he walked up to a guy's steel that he'd never seen before, sat down and played the heck out of it. Only one I've ever seen do it, but I'm sure BE and a few others could. Not me.

Hmmm. well.... I should add, I did sit in on a guy's S-10 E9chr. once, only had a couple knees so I couldn't get too tripped up... came out OK. Only time I ever did it... that I remember...

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 14 September 2005 at 12:32 PM.]

Rick Johnson · From: Wheelwright, Ky USA

Tony
At least you tried, thats more
than most of us would have done.

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Rick Johnson

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Tony.. Its happened to all of us.. I have DESTROYED a band on stage by being fumble fingered, and other times have gone up and made a good impression.... I have heard your playing..you certainly have NOTHING to apologize for!... We all know its virtually impossible to be at your best on another players steel, amp and PICKS!..It sure ain't like pickin up a strat or tele....

I'll bet you were your biggest critic that night. Its not a nice feeling tho'... Been there.. done that.. bob

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Don't sweat it, nobody is as good on someone else's guitar as they are on their own. NOBODY. That said, when I sit in on someone else's axe, I keep it simple. As long as they're not doing jazz standards with tons of changes, I just stay on A&B, and forget the levers. For backup, and an occasional ride, this is all I need. Many players are pedal and lick oriented, and I've heard statements like "I can't play it if you're not raising the 1st a full tone, and lowering the 6th a full tone".

What???

Don't they realize just how much can be played with just two pedals?

I guess not.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

The late Bob White, who owned and managed "The Someplace Else" supper club in Oklahoma City after leaving Hank Thompson, kept his guitar on the bandstand but only played occasionally with the house band when he had some time away from managing the Club.

He once told me that he had many requests from steelplayers wanting to set-in on his guitar because it was not being played, but his policy was not to allow any set-ins.

His reasoning was that "they might play bad and the customers might think it was him, or worse, they might play better".

I was never sure whether he was being facetious or if he was serious!

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www.genejones.com

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

excellent comments from all..and I somehow knew I was not the only one who ever sank in a Dinghy....on shore....

I guess I should have also stated earlier that my wife, god bless her, she did tell me by the 3rd song or so I was coming back to life..she told me I was playing very tentative...

It wasn't so much about licks or Pedals A + or B , most of the issues had to do with picks being very uncomfortable, pedal and knee lever action being 'different'..not bad..just different..the throws were totally different..

I guess if I were to sit at that Steel for about 20 munites to 1/2 hour my "vibe" would have mostly arrived..but it didn't in "0" minutes...

just one of them things..

that we do

t

Gene H. Brown · From: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, Canada

I don't know how many of you know Danny Sneed out there, but let me tell you this, he has the weirdest tuning I have ever "tried" to play in my entire life.
He tunes to an open A and everything we raise, he lowers. It is completely bass ackwards from anything you've ever sit in on my friends. Danny, if you read this, would you please post your tuning for everyone to see?
Thanks
Gene

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!
;)

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

In contrast to the "don't sweat it" comments, I take your post in the spirit that I am reading it and say "sweat it!". It's a lesson I have learned and the only consolation is knowing that all steelers know your predicament. But nobody else does. The urge to take someone up on the offer to sit down at their guitar is powerful. Bravado. Feeling the music in you. Wanting to partake of the brotherhood. Many reasons to do it. And with enough lubricant in you it is amazingly easy to forget that you already know what a bad idea it is. In my case it is exacerbated by the quirks of my setup that make a 'standard' steel even more alien. And the pathetic thing is that I KNOW that I shouldn't do it and yet one day, once again, I KNOW that I will. For a good reason. I am dumb as a damned doorknob. I sure feel your pain.

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