Ah, 'tis a Funny World

Gary Boyett · Post by **Gary Boyett** » 31 Jul 2005 5:42 am

Congratulations Marty!

Living in the Denver area and taking some lessons from this guy I know he is a lot better than he is telling you.

By the way Marty, you are always welcome to come on over to "no peddlers". We are not that bad...

If nothing else, we can talk about tuning!!!!!

------------------
JCFSGC,RMSGC,HSGA member since 2005
Fenders- Georgeboard- Melobar
Boyett's Glass Bars

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 31 Jul 2005 9:47 am

Donna -- I decided to dig out my "Gregg Reference Manual" from a box of books in the garage

According to the manual, apparently "anything goes" as far as forming contractions. The manual simply says that "a contraction is a shortened form of a word or phrase in which an apostrophe indicates the omitted letters or words."

Basically, the only other "rule" (if you can call it a rule) provided in regard to contractions is that o'clock is considered to be the only formal contraction. All other contractions are considered to be informal and should not be used in formal writing.

So, apparently, the answer to your question is, "yes, an apostrophe is used to form a contraction with any noun, including proper nouns."

Gene -- I believe your rule is only to be applied to pronouns. Here's what the manual says in regard to confusion of certain possessive pronouns with contractions and other phrases that sound like possessive pronouns:

"As a test for the correct form, try to substitute it is (or it has, they are, there are, there has, or you are, which ever is appropriate). If the substitution does not make sense, use the corresponding possessive form."

--- IN GENERAL---

The rule in regard to possessive forms of personal pronouns and the relative pronoun who do not require an apostrophe:

I: mine;
she: hers;
they: theirs;
you: yours;
it: its;
who: whose;
he: his;
we: ours.

***HOWEVER***
Some indefinite pronouns have regular possessive forms which follow the normal rule. For example:

one's choice;
the other's claim;
anybody's guess'
anyone else's job;
someone's chance.

+++ so, it turns out that I'm wrong about the word "anyone's" in my first post above

--- But, hold on a minute ---
For those indefinite pronouns that do not have possessive forms, use an of phrase. For example, instead of saying, we need to tend to each's needs you would say, we need to tend to the needs of each.

--- Another rule is that you only use an apostrophe to form a plural when the result would be confusing if no apostrophe were used. For example, you wouldn't want to write this: there are four is in Mississippi because it is confusing. So, instead you would write, there are four i's in Mississippi

So, an example sentence could be as follows:

If we were to clone Marty, we would then have two Martys. But, you can bet the two Martys'll be fightin' over which one's going to play the Dobro, so it might be a good idea to have two Dobros around. In that case, Marty's banjo's probably not going to get played that often because it's just not that rewarding in view of its contest record.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 31 Jul 2005 10:19 am

It's got to be b'etter to have more than you need and have s'ome left over, than not h'ave e'nough and run out in the m'iddle of your t'hought?

Archie Nicol · Post by **Archie Nicol** » 31 Jul 2005 2:31 pm

I don't know what this has to do with the original post, but try this; http://eatsshootsandleaves.com/ESLquiz.html

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 1 Aug 2005 5:01 am

If we were to clone Marty, we would then have two Martys. But, you can bet the two Martys'll be fightin' over which one's going to play the Dobro

This is so true, and despite being an excellent English lesson, it's the thread hijack of all time.

It's too bad English usage has gone all to he'll and so'on wo'nt ma'tter. (But dang it, I only got a 75 on the test.)

GO get 'em, Marty's![This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 01 August 2005 at 06:04 AM.]

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 1 Aug 2005 11:05 am

It's too bad English usage has gone all to he'll and so'on wo'nt ma'tter.

What makes you think it won't matter?

It seems to be modern style to just drop the apostrophe in this case now.

Ah, yes, "modern style." So many of these 'modern styles' have we seen, and look what they've done.[This message was edited by James Cann on 01 August 2005 at 01:17 PM.]

Leroy Riggs · Post by **Leroy Riggs** » 1 Aug 2005 12:43 pm

Well, your use of an apostrophe is questionable but you seem to know how to play the dobro.

Congrats my friend!

As I remember from many years ago, the apostrophe can be used to show possession as it is intended in Marty's context. It has been a long time but I think the grammer is correct.[This message was edited by Leroy Riggs on 01 August 2005 at 01:44 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 1 Aug 2005 12:50 pm

whoops[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 01 August 2005 at 01:52 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 1 Aug 2005 12:51 pm

James, I really enjoyed you in 'Rollerball.'
(If I recall right, nobody in the future was writing anymore anyway.)

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 1 Aug 2005 12:51 pm

so I was taught that a possessive apostrophe should be used after the "s"

Same here. Looks like Tom Olson pretty well covered it all though.

Where's Chris Brooks? I believe he said he's an English professor.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 1 Aug 2005 1:09 pm

Surely, two Martys should read - 'Marties' (as in Smarties.....?

What do I know, anyway?

RR

Archie Nicol · Post by **Archie Nicol** » 1 Aug 2005 3:58 pm

Take the test. Charlie did and I assume he was honest regarding his score.
Samuel Morse got it right.
... --- ... or we could have been stuck with; ,,,@@ ''' ,,, >> **& ::~~ ## << __ .
I hope I haven't swore.
Cheers, Arch.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 1 Aug 2005 4:00 pm

Morse, now there's a man who knew his dits from his dahs.

-.-. .- -. -.-- --- ..- .-. . .- -.. - .... .. ... ..--..

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 1 Aug 2005 5:33 pm

I was honestly appalled. I never made less than a 95 in grammar in grade school. Now, I take a test on a computer, and I worry that it's going to say 'time's up.'

To have once been a straight A student makes absolutely no difference in the present.

GO MARTY! RAH RAH RAH![This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 01 August 2005 at 06:33 PM.]

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 1 Aug 2005 5:41 pm

Surely, two Martys should read - 'Marties' (as in Smarties.....?

Roger, according to the rules, you're never supposed to change the spelling of a proper noun when making it plural.

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 1 Aug 2005 5:48 pm

SO, if I understand correctly,

I SHOULD apostrophize (is that a word?) the word it's in the following phrase: I like it's tone.
Yes?
That's what I thought and these things are important to me and being right helps me sleep at nite.

Oh BTW, did I mention that I just won a $4500 MODEL 27 DELUXE DOBRO???

YIPPEE!!!

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 1 Aug 2005 7:58 pm

quote:
---------------------------------------------
so I was taught that a possessive apostrophe should be used after the "s"
---------------------------------------------
And you're right, as long as there's more than one owner: if a dog is owned by two brothers, it's the brothers' dog; if there's only one, it's the brother's.

The words tell you what to do: brother (needs both ' and s) vs. brothers (has the s already--add the ').[This message was edited by James Cann on 01 August 2005 at 09:04 PM.]

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 1 Aug 2005 8:14 pm

apostrophize (is that a word?)

Yes, according to the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition.

Apostrophize -phized, phizing, phizes to address by or speak or write in apostrophe.

But, see:
Apostrophe 2 the direct address of an absent or imaginary person or of a personified abstraction, especially as a digression in the course of a speech or composition.[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 01 August 2005 at 09:15 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 1 Aug 2005 8:21 pm

I SHOULD apostrophize (is that a word?) the word it's in the following phrase: I like it's tone.

The answers are yes and no.

1. Apostrophize is a word, with the obvious meaning.

2. In Tom's sentence:

"In that case, Marty's banjo's probably not going to get played that often because it's just not that rewarding in view of its contest record.",

"I like its tone" is comparable grammatically to "in view of its contest record", no apostrophe is required.

You know, I'm moderately picky about grammar, but all this "t-crossing and i-dotting" isn't that important - we all know what is being said either way. OK, if you're writing a Ph.D. dissertation, some yahoo on your dissertation committee (like me) might pick you up on it. But in everyday communication, we can chill a bit.

BTW, Marty - congratulations. The bluegrass world is pretty competitive, so you must be a better dobro player than you say. As far as not placing in the banjo contest - well, aren't 'contest' banjo, fiddle, and flatpicking players a different breed? The approach is very different than for ensemble playing. Ensemble players learn to play for the song. Contest players are out to impress. Sorta like "OK, I gotta hit that triple toe, triple axle, triple loop, triple lutz - look at the judges: 9.8, 9.5, 9.9, 9.6, 9.8, oh blast it - I only hit the double lutz". It reminds me more of an athletic contest than music. I find it mechanical.[This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 01 August 2005 at 09:22 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 1 Aug 2005 8:27 pm

You really won a $4500 MODEL 27 DELUXE DOBRO???

I was just starting to like you, but now....

Congratulations, I'm sure you wouldn't have won it if you don't deserve it.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 01 August 2005 at 09:29 PM.]

Donna Dodd · Post by **Donna Dodd** » 2 Aug 2005 1:31 am

Congratulations, Marty!!!!

I think it was in a different post, but you mentioned your family and said you have six daughters - REALLY?? No kidding?? Imagine being adored by 7 females in your family!!
<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm825' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_17_5.gif' alt='#1 Ribbon' border=0></a>

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 2 Aug 2005 2:36 am

Often adored, frequently trodden upon, always penniless.

Thanx Jim, sorry to crow but it's just SO darned exciting. The thing just sings and has that growl when I dig in; love it, great instrument.

As to the competitive aspect of these contests, you hit it on the head but there's more to it.
In the b@nj0 contest I didn't land very many of the required elements smoothly and my dismount just plain sucked. NERVES! Had I just gone out there and ripped it up like I KNOW how to do, I'd have placed for sure. Don't need no STEENKIN' songs!

On the other hand, in the reso competition I didn't try to compete on the same turf as everybody else. I haven't studied the Jerry Douglas stuff and just vaguely remember the Uncle Josh style. I used a combination b@nj0/pedal steel skill set that (I believe) set me apart from the field. I got comments afterward the included my tuning/intonation (straight up, BTW) and 'unusual' style.

And not ONE bar slant!