Fingerpicking...

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 13 Oct 2005 7:13 am

Hello folks,

Here's another post from the lap steel beginner:

On "normal" acoustic guitar, I am a good fingerpicker. I use only my fingers - no picks on the fingertips - and I'm fast and fluent.

The other day I received some steel finger/thumb picks I got from eBay, I tried them out and I felt like an elephant trying to ride a bicycle! (Or something... A bit like eating with chopsticks for the first time, might be a more appropriate metaphor.)

So now I wonder, does any of you seasoned lap steel guitarists out there play with your right hand fingers, without picks? Or does all steel guitarists use finger- and thumbpicks?

Once again - I'm very thankful for any advice and thanks for your patience!

Cheers,

Fred

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 13 Oct 2005 7:17 am

I play without them sometimes for a tone change, but I found that a couple of weeks of restricting yourself to using the picks will make them a lot more comfortable, and you will find that you have a whole new palette of sounds. Stick it out a bit, it'll be worth it.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 13 Oct 2005 8:35 am

Fred, I have learned to pick with and without picks the hard way. When I first got my steel, I spent a minimum of two hours per day in half hour sittings picking one string at a time going from top to bottom then bottom to the top. Of course I was moving the bar up the neck with each run. Within 60 days, I could pick with all three fingers going from top to bottom and back up without catching a second string no matter how fast I picked. All it takes is perseverance and your wanting to do it.

I also played at a church where the music director did not want me using picks and at the same time, wanted me to play tons of harmonics in the background. (what he was actually after was chimes) As with you, I felt like an elephant wearing boxing gloves while trying to get clear sound and tone without using picks, but even more so, trying to play harmonics while not using picks. Over time however, I learned how to pick nice clear notes without the use of picks as well as getting very clear harmonics.

In short “it’s up to you” plus just how badly you want to master both methods. Both methods have their place and do work beautifully.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 13 Oct 2005 9:26 am

Bobbe Seymour does not use finger picks. There is a short video of him demonstrating this at his Steel Guitar Nashville website.

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Mark

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 13 Oct 2005 11:02 am

Fred-- I'm far from "seasoned", have only been playing for 18 mo. I have a fingerstyle guitar background like you, and don't use picks on either instrument. There are pros and cons either way. Playing steel without picks makes the following easier IMO-- a) right hand muting/blocking (flesh vs. pick) (b)getting tonal variety, using nail or tip or both together
c)grabbing big, non-strum-type chords d) going from "standard" guitar to steel or vice versa during performances.
The disadvantages-- a) losing a certain amount of "crispness" and clarity overall, especially on strum chords and harmonics; b) some would say, sacrificing speed on single-note runs
c) nails are vulnerable to tearing, snagging and generally changing shape.

I'd have to agree with the previous posts that practice is the way to deal with all difficulties, and that it's best to master more than one way to produce a good sound. Eventually I'll try picks, if only to find out for myself what, and how much, they can add. --Steve [This message was edited by Stephan Miller on 13 October 2005 at 12:11 PM.]

Arthur Herrmann · Post by **Arthur Herrmann** » 13 Oct 2005 11:36 am

Started out playing steel without picks like I finger pick regular guitar but it was pretty hard on the finger tips even after I got callouses so I switched to picks. I like the increased volume and crisper sound with picks. Only thing I miss about playing without was that I was getting pretty good at playing false harmonics all over the neck and sliding them around which I did by simultaneously muting the string with the bare thumb and striking the string. Haven't figured out a way to do that with picks yet.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 13 Oct 2005 12:43 pm

Get some Alaska pics. You will have no problem with them. Save your own nails!! They fit under your nail and over the TOP of the finger. You cut them down to size with a pair of nail clippers and then file to suit. Plastic and they sound very nice without the "clink" of metal picks.

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 14 Oct 2005 1:03 am

Thanks a lot everyone! I'll get practicing (it was easier already yesterday).

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 14 Oct 2005 7:32 am

Fred, do you have an eight or six string lap steel?

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Ray Shurance · Post by **Ray Shurance** » 14 Oct 2005 6:18 pm

Bill: Where do you get ALASKA picks? And would you describe them again to me. I'm having a hard time 'seeing' something that goes under and over your finger nail. TY ray

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 14 Oct 2005 6:36 pm

Ray. I emailed you a page from the Elderly Instruments web site. You can also do a google search for Alaska Pik.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 14 Oct 2005 8:10 pm

Picks are for sissies! Ha! Start using picks and pretty soon you'll want to be using a volume pedal and a special chair, a drink holder, there will be no end!

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 14 Oct 2005 8:22 pm

----------->then you'll want to get paid!

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 14 Oct 2005 8:47 pm

Tony Davis · Post by **Tony Davis** » 15 Oct 2005 3:26 am

Clear off with your silly suggestians Bobbe..........us Gents have to protect our fingernails and not get hard skin on the end of our fingers.....and as for that no picks..thumb picking and tune playing..........well you did leave the sleave of the Merle Travis LP....next to the player that is hooked up to the speaker that is under your guitar.....just ços you are a friend doesnt mean I overlook these things..............
You know I am kidding.......maybe see you in March
Tony

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 15 Oct 2005 4:29 am

I'm with Bobbe. I like the feel of the strings, the direct feedback. I don't play piano with gloves to keep my hands clean; if God wanted me to play with picks he wouldn't have given me fingernails.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 15 Oct 2005 6:28 am

This discussion has been going on since the earliest days of the forum. There are a lot of advantages to playing sans fingerpicks. On the other hand, certain sounds and the ability to cut through a band only come with fingerpicks. Practice both ways and you'll make the choice rather than having the choice made for you.

Don Barnhardt · Post by **Don Barnhardt** » 15 Oct 2005 6:33 pm

I can't imagine not using picks for steel playing but if bare fingers work for you go for it. Picks are more personal than a tooth brush. If your're playing like an elephant you may have the wrong kind of picks. Do you have a big thick plastic thumb pick and blunt finger picks? You need to tailor your picks for your style. I like light finger picks (I have some old Nationals that I got back in the early 50's) with pointy ends and I like a ProPik thumb pick. Dunlop makes pretty good finger picks but you need to fit them to your fingers with needle nose pliers and shape the points with a file. Don't loan them to people with big thick fingers.

Kris Oka · Post by **Kris Oka** » 15 Oct 2005 7:23 pm

OK, here is a new one. I am just learning how to play the steel so you may take this with a grain of salt. For the life of me, I could not get used to playing with steel tips on my fingers because I couldn't feel the strings. So I have acrylic nails added on at the local nail salon. Yeah, they are always curious why I only have them placed on the first three fingers. I play a string instrument, I explain. Ah so. And yeah you have to go every two or three weeks to have them redone and sit with the ladies. But hey, if you haven't had a good manicure and pedicure lately, you ought to try it.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 15 Oct 2005 8:48 pm

----------->then you'll want to get paid!

Bobbe you are a hoot

looking forward to hearing a great steel player like Bobbe Seymour.

see you in Norwalk and please can you bring along a few extra .011 and 0 12 strings for me?, I cant get that guage back here.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 15 Oct 2005 9:04 pm

Nothing is escaping me, I'm reading all this! (and loving it!)

If God would have meant for man to fly, he'd be born with airline tickets!

Or picks on his fingers!

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 15 Oct 2005 9:11 pm

Fred-

Pedal steel players bend the tips up, following the curve of the fingertip, so it feels more like bare fingers when using picks. I'm not sure how non-peddlers differ from that in general. I like fingers also.

To get an idea of the curve of the pedal-steeler' bend, I ordered some picks from Jeffran, "pre-bent".

Hi, Bobbe.

-dean-[This message was edited by Dean Parks on 15 October 2005 at 10:13 PM.]

Ray Shurance · Post by **Ray Shurance** » 16 Oct 2005 1:32 pm

Bill: I sent YOU a thank you for your prompt reply, however, it came back undeliverable. Problably me. THANKS SO MUCH.. I'm gonna look into those when I get a chance.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 16 Oct 2005 4:08 pm

"Where do you get Alaska picks"? Nome?
Fairbanks?

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 19 Oct 2005 2:35 am

Thanks a lot to all of you!

Les, I have a 6-string (National New Yorker).

I'm getting better with the picks - I use a Dunlop metal thumb pick and National metal fingerpicks. I find that the National ones produce a "thinner" sound than the (heavier) Dunlop. Any suggestions on getting a more "even" sound between thumb and fingers?

Thanks!

Fred