Playing with "less experienced "musicians.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 20 Jul 2005 4:23 am

Makes perfect sense, Bob.
A band I played with in Tulsa, we were more like family; nobody flashed (but the piano player shined) and while playing, I got the feeling of 'equal compentency.' It just worked. Stage shows went smoothly, like butter. Nothing like that feeling when everybody plays at the same level of competency.

Keith DeLong · Post by **Keith DeLong** » 20 Jul 2005 6:16 am

Pedal steel is not my primary instrument so I'm always glad to get an opportunity to play with whoever--I jam once in a while with some really good players, they leave me holes to fill in, and I got a paying gig because someone hears me play at these jams. It's great to play with top notch players, but there is always something to learn no matter how experienced the other musicians are. Here, as in a lot of places, it's a struggle to get a chance to play steel, as a lot of country bands would rather have a keyboard player with a bagful of simulated strings etc.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 20 Jul 2005 7:48 am

This thread reminds me of an incident that must have taken place about 20 years ago.

I was in a print shop on some non-music related matter, when this woman who must have weighed about 300 pounds (not hat I’m in a position to pass judgment on such matters) walked in and announced to everybody there that she had a job singing. I asked her what kind of music, and she said country, so I asked who was playing steel for her. She answered that she didn’t have a steel player and asked me if I played, and I told her I did.

She immediately wanted to hire me, but I told her that I wouldn’t play for less than $100 a night (New Years Eve notwithstanding, I never made that much in my life.) She assured me that the money would be no problem, and took my card. I assumed that I’d never see or hear from her again.

Shortly afterwards, I got a call from a guy who said he had a gig at a club in Hollywood (which is very close to where I was living at the time) and needed a steel player, and would I mind rehearsing with the band once or twice before the gig? I asked if I could do so with just a mandolin since they are so much easier to carry around and need no set up. He agreed.

So I got to the rehearsal and found a bunch of rank amateurs who didn’t know that they were all supposed to play the same chord at the same time, and had no concept of keeping a steady rhythm. I felt like a total jerk, but I had no choice but to tell them they were not good enough to do gigs, and I was not interested in playing with them.

2 or 3 weeks later, I got a phone call from my former picking partner Harry Barnett, a fine guitarist I’ve gigged with many times in 2 different bands. Harry told me he had a gig in Hollywood, very close to my house, and invited me to come.

So I walked into the club, and here is the incompetent band, with the lady from the print shop, making total fools of themselves, and poor Harry trying to make the best of the situation, and looking like he’s prefer to be being burned at the stake or having red hot needles thrust under his fingernails.

Harry called me up to the stage, where we stood side by side, and he fretted the guitar while I picked it. Of coursed neither of us knew what the other was going to do, so it was a train wreck, but it was still better than what the others were doing.

We’ve all heard the phrase “delusions of grandeur” Here’s a new one for you. Delusions of competence.

Billy Henderson · Post by **Billy Henderson** » 20 Jul 2005 8:52 am

Well I may not have the same perception but I do know lots of pickers that have played for 50 years and absolutely refuse to play with someone who is not as proficient. I've seen them put their guitar down and have a "smoke". OK fine, I have had it it happen to me. Then when they get a gig in the area or have a CD for sale they ask for my support, BULL HOCKEY!! and besides that after playing 50 years most of them I know are still mediocre intermediate players. Don't send them an email asking a question hell will freeze over before they answer. So what goes around comes around. So when I get too good to play with you I will let you know.

Stephen LeBlanc · Post by **Stephen LeBlanc** » 20 Jul 2005 9:12 am

I didn't read this whole thread but figured I'd add a cliche that has proven itself true many times...

"Yer only as strong as your weakest link"

I think this is more true than the idea that you're only as strong as your leader, though a good leader can make up for a lot

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 21 Jul 2005 2:35 am

Mike, it sounds like you and Harry fit in real well there.

Ernest Cawby · Post by **Ernest Cawby** » 21 Jul 2005 4:45 am

When we set up to play a gig here in Lake City there is about 300 years of experience on the stage , it does not get any better than that. I cannot fault these guys in any way, even when we do not play at our best, which sometimes happens. we should all be so lucky.

ernie

Alan Rudd · Post by **Alan Rudd** » 22 Jul 2005 11:28 am

When I first began playing "out" I was a very good rhythm guitarist, but later got more interested in playing lead licks. I was much more comfortable with a band of good musicians as opposed to someone with less experience. I've played with a lot of pros, and many have not been as good. All I know is, I have learned from both and taught a few as well. I also know that when I get ready to let it rip, I need a strong rhythm covering my butt, or I feel quite naked and alone. It really helps to have a solid group behind you. If you want to sound good and make some decent money, it's a must, but I would not pass up an opportunity to play unless I know it is something I am not going to enjoy doing. I think we've all been there at some time or another. I've been playing the psg now for less than a year. I consider myself a pretty good guitar player, but I'll definitely spend much more time in the woodshed before I hire out on the psg.

Ben Slaughter · Post by **Ben Slaughter** » 22 Jul 2005 12:19 pm

Well, I think I'm about to play a gig with a converted punk band (tonight), they've been playing country for 6 mos. So far, in conversations, I think I'm by far the most experienced, and I'm VERY FRIGHTENED! I have NO IDEA what to expect...

Hopefully I'll have something to report, if I survive.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 22 Jul 2005 5:27 pm

If I'm being paid to play then I try to get with the best pickers I can. But if it's just a jam session or a little community center dance where people show up and just play then I'll try to blend in. If it gets to bad or if the lead player tries to intro 15 Years Ago or Farewell Party type steel songs, then I'll just fold my arms and let them play away. When they get tired or decide to tune then I'll try again. As long as I'm not being paid, I don't really care but if I'm being paid to play steel that night then that's when I'll say something to someone if they start playing steel intros and playing all over me when I try to play where I need to. I don't disrepect other players by doing this to them and I'm not going to tolerate it being done to me. I realize that some players may play on top of a steel player sometimes by accident. I don't have a problem with that. But when it continues to happen, then it needs to be stopped. Playing serious playing jobs that pay good money usually produce good top notch pickers that know how and when to play. It's not that I think I'm any better than anyone else, it's just a matter of respect! If you want it, then give it!

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 24 Jul 2005 11:32 am

Playing with various groups of people, I get some nights where the interplay is brilliant, and I'm raised/inspired/forced to get to the highest level of my proficiency, (or lack of)!

Then there's the bands/players who just don't understand groove or feel, and playing is literally a chore. No way to play to your best. I can sometimes sympathize with players who were less than kind in my formative years...

Interestingly, some of the least sophisticated players seem to have the most heart and desire, and some of the monster technicians have the jaded dried-up thing going on. Drive and ambition can certainly be inspiring. It's also fascinating to me that some of the "hackier" bands seem to hustle up more gigs...

It can be rewarding from an ego standpoint to be the most seasoned player in a group, and just as intimidating to be the resident hack! As I always have, I still prefer to play whenever I can with people who challenge me and who push me to stretch my abilities and knowledge. The most attractive thing for me about playing music for a living is the limitless possibility for improvment, expansion, and growth. It's not a job where you'll ever know it all.

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[This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 24 July 2005 at 12:35 PM.]

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 24 Jul 2005 2:20 pm

Back last November I was off on a Saturday night and got a call to play a real run down honky-tonk in Portland, Tn. The back room was just a metal box and we nearly froze but this band was outstanding. They had a front singer playing a flatop doing country but when the band did one it was r/r and I mean serious r/r like Pink Floyd and stuff that you just don't hear unless it's a concert type of gig. These guys were amazing and actually played country as well as they did r/r. Not until three weeks ago did I get to play anymore with them because I had other commitments. Now we're playing at a local hotel just on Saturdays and doing all country with a couple of other guys doing the front work playing flatops. Both are good song writers and good frontmen. One has written some real big hits too! So far it's attracting local songwriters and singers to come and sit in. I can sit back and play my part and nothing else and it's great to not have to fill in because somebody else didn't do it. These guys are taking money out of their pay to give me. Hard to beat that.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 24 Jul 2005 3:25 pm

Having been a journeyman steel player for most of my life and working miscellaneous jobs with unknown bands, it was always an anxious "pit of the stomach" moment until I found the ability of the other bandmembers, because I knew that I would sound no better.

I was sometimes surprised at the professionalism of some of those unknown bands, and I was taxed to keep up with them.

In summary, there are eons of undiscovered and unrecognized musicians out there who are great musicians and performers. The "Name on the Bus" is not always the criteria of success.

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The Road Traveled "From Then 'til Now"

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 25 Jul 2005 5:20 am

as long as you have fun...........