Ever play off "Top of your head" on steel?

J PARKER · Post by **J PARKER** » 17 Jun 2005 9:00 pm

I guess i would have to say i play off the top of my head most of the times. It dont get nearly as boring to me because you play what you feel and not always signature licks all the time if that makes sense to people. The mood your in and the surroundings play a lot of what you play on that given time.

Ron Carpenter · Post by **Ron Carpenter** » 17 Jun 2005 9:42 pm

Fielding ground balls! To me it's the most challenging way to play. I like to rehearse, find good lines, develop harmonies with the other leads, cover the signature lines in a song...then roll it out the same way each time.

On the other hand, I often go to jams. Where it's never the same group from one set to the next, singers often skip beats in their vocal presentation, and signature lines are hard to come buy.

Ideally, I like to play all night and not play the same cliche' riffs all night long. Making each song stand alone. That's hard to do "off the top of my head".

all my best

Ron C

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 18 Jun 2005 3:10 am

Me, I just try to play on pitch twice in a row. Come to think of it, the band is trying to get me to do that just once in a row!!

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 18 Jun 2005 4:44 am

My problem is "have I ever not played off the top of my head". I don't think I have ever played the same song the same way in my entire life!! But, what the hey, its a lot of fun making it up as you go along!!

Ernie :}

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Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 18 Jun 2005 4:52 am

As Brother Dave Gardner used to say, "You can't do anything again. You can do something similar...."
That's just off the top of my head. There's very little else there now.

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 18 Jun 2005 5:21 am

I play with a trio occassionally where it is one continuous musical wrestling match from one end of a song to the other. Our goal is to pin each other into messing up. It is hands down the most fun I have ever had playing. We do mostly covers, but the goal is to do them completely different from the original and different each time we play. Trust in and familiarity with each other's playing is the key to hanging on as well as we do. Very seldom does it fall it apart.

Then there is my country band who does everything the same way every time. I do improvise, but I still have to play the signature licks and sometimes they want a solo like the record. It's funny, but with all that structure, those guys can seldom get through a song without someone screwing up.

The same drummer who plays with the trio plays with the country band. He has played all over the world for years in jazz bands, is a phenomenal drummer, yet the structure kills him in the country band.

I teach improvisation and I emphasize developing good timing, chord theory, a good knowledge of the most common chord progressions, and knowing how to rip apart at least a dozen different scales into improvisational passages.

If you know the scales up and down the neck, you have a foundation to build good improv on. If you don't, it's just guess work and you greatly diminish your scope of playing.

You can learn all the cool licks, but if you don't have a way of connecting them, it's hard to hang on to a good run for more than a few bars.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 18 Jun 2005 12:49 pm

The Band I work with likes to keep it as close to cover as we could. I have more lee way than the other members,adding steel parts. I like to play off the top of my head,but it needs to fit in. Jams are fun,and sometimes I set in with other bands.
Ron Carpenter- how are you,where the heck have you been? Are you still with The Nite Herd Band? I have been working with the same country band going on four years. Check out our web page Joe www.willowcreekband.com [This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 18 June 2005 at 01:50 PM.][This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 18 June 2005 at 01:52 PM.][This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 18 June 2005 at 01:57 PM.][This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 18 June 2005 at 02:54 PM.]

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 19 Jun 2005 8:41 am

yeah..i play off the top of my head..and when i make a boo boo...i just say i was
well...."Playing off the top of my head"...

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Whitney Single 12 8FL & 5 KN,keyless, dual changers Extended C6th, Webb Amp, Line6 PodXT, Goodrich Curly Chalker Volume Pedal, Match Bro, BJS Bar..I was keyless....when keyless wasn't cool....

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 19 Jun 2005 10:55 am

I play off the top of my head, but I get accused of playing out of my......

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 21 Jun 2005 8:41 am

One of the things I really enjoy with our band is there are times when we play parts as close together as we can along with signature licks but there is plenty of time to go out on the limb as far as you dare.

I really enjoy playing spontaneous and feeding off another player for inspiration or ideas and going into a ride without a clue how it will come out. Sometimes we'll play 4s with steel,fiddle,and lead. I think there are times you can jam and times one needs to play pretty straight according to the songs.

Hal Higgins · Post by **Hal Higgins** » 21 Jun 2005 1:52 pm

Billy....this is a great topic.....with some great answers and comments.....Most of the time I play "Off the top of my head", especially when I'm doing fills, etc. In the studio, though, it's a little different. I may start that way, but usually by the time I'm through the first rehearsal.....I find a comfortable way of playing what's needed at the moment for the song......and try to retain that as a reference for the whole song.....whether it would be called a signature lick for the song or whatever.....hope this makes sense. HAL

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Be Blessed........HAL
'85 Emmons LeGrande D-10,(8 & 5) Hilton Vol. Pedal, BJS Birthstone bar, Rack w/Evans Pre-amp, Lexicon MPX500; (2)1501-4 BW's in custom built cabs by T.A. Gibson, & Sound Tech PL802 Digital Power Amp.

Jonathan Gregg · Post by **Jonathan Gregg** » 21 Jun 2005 2:57 pm

A little of both. There is something to be said for composing a solo that suits the song perfectly, and that hopefully contains some technical challenges so you don't get bored and actually push yourself to execute it properly.

But you have to be able to jump in and just play too, and since a lot of the repertoire for our instrument falls in fairly predictable patterns, it shouldn't be that big a leap. The downside is that I find myself more likely to play familiar licks in that situation. Having a few set pieces is a good way to incorporate more original ideas, which eventually become second nature, with a little luck.

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 22 Jun 2005 9:17 am

I sometimes play "Off the top of my head" and still have enough wood left over to build a lap steel.

~~W.C.~~[This message was edited by Wayne Cox on 22 June 2005 at 10:19 AM.]

Rick Kornacker · Post by **Rick Kornacker** » 23 Jun 2005 7:32 pm

Billy..just a few thoughts..I have found in many past experiences in backing an artist/singer,especially a Nashville act, that it is almost impossible for me to play "spontaneously" when performing a show and that it is really not a good idea to do it if I could. Many artists are "weirded out" if you should suddenly decide to take a new approach to their material..they are definitely more comfortable(and less insecure,ha)hearing something "familiar". Inventing a new "kick-off" to a tune is not the way to go. Many Nashville "pros" take out their frustrations by sitting-in at a local club just to be able to be less "locked-in" and take the opportunity to play with different players making for a more spontaneuous and enjoyable experience, or in short, the opposite situation of the "show" gig. Good therapy and helps to keep you balanced. RK

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Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 23 Jun 2005 9:44 pm

Hello Rick, I met you when you were playing with Martin Delray. You were in Hattiesburg, Ms. at a club called "The Falls" playing a show. I was the steel player with the house band then. You are correct about backing a big act and playing the signature licks to there songs. You were playing S-10D gray or charcoal Emmons that night. I remember really enjoying your playing that night. Thanks!

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 24 Jun 2005 10:51 am

Actually, it's an interesting question, once you really think about it.
On the surface, my first reaction is, sure, I play that way all the time.
But on further thought, the "show band" I play with the most, does not work well for constantly changing riffs and licks.
In fact, I have strived to come up with good, solid parts that I try to play the same all the time, except for a solo.
I find that works quite well, as long as the chosen parts are good from the start.
If not, I'll work them out till I get them where I want them, then I stick with them all the time.

Rick Kornacker · Post by **Rick Kornacker** » 24 Jun 2005 11:07 am

Hey Billy!
Nice to hear from you and thanks for remembering. Playing with "Marty" gave us a chance to stretch more than usual, which kept it more interesting. Take care and play good.RK

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David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 24 Jun 2005 1:37 pm

Great topic.
"Do any steelers play the same thing everytime?"
Way back in '72 I became friends with Lucky Oceans, the first steel player for Asleep At The Wheel".... they actually were just getting ready to release their "Comin Right At Ya" Album. One time I visited Lucky in the house in Oakland that the entire band was living in. He was practicing "Driving Nails in My Coffin", (using a "varible speed" turntable, so he could tune the record to his steel, cool uh?... it was in '72). He mentioned that Ray would only accept reproducing the stock licks on the record, I kinda turned pale and told him I could never do that, but he really didn't mind at all.... and Lucky is one fine steeler who could really play anything he wanted.

Myself, I'm in a unique position. The new band I'm in do all orginal American/Roots Rock, and have a CD (very nice). I play the signature licks on the CD tunes (fun because instruments on the CD are things like Cellos and grand pianos). But on the new songs, not yet recorded, I am very loose with trying new stuff... so I'm really doing both.

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 24 Jun 2005 1:58 pm

Well for me I probably never know what i am gonna play until my hands are picking the steel. Of course there are a couple of songs like "Amarillo by Morning" or " Little Sister" that have hooks that signify the song. But other than that i never play a song the same twice.

Just recently this past year after attending the steel guitar convention for the first time, I watched the masters like "Terry Bethel" play, I chose to attempt some of the arrangements that are so beautiful. So I am currently learning how to play songs that are much more complicated and require some specific movements.

I have always wondered what it would be like to work with a star that require songs be played like the recordings.

Its all good guys, don't ya just love it........ [This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 24 June 2005 at 03:02 PM.]

Marc Friedland · Post by **Marc Friedland** » 24 Jun 2005 7:30 pm

I think the only times I play off the top of my head are sometimes while practicing, and when sitting in with a new group. But even then, I believe it's only partially off the top of my head.
The group I play the most with is The Dave Russell Band. In that situation I play psg, keyboards & 6-string, as well as adding some vocals. Every moment of our show is well rehearsed, and there's very little room for improvisation. For example, the song Honky Tonk Attitude. In that song I start on piano, switch over to pedal steel for a solo, and then back up to piano for a solo on that instrument, and I only have about 10 seconds between instruments. This doesn't allow me the luxury of being spontaneous, and that's fine with me. I've worked out 2 different solos on psg, and always play one or the other. On piano, again the solo is close to the same every time. These solos might not be "exact" every time, but their attitude and basic phrasing is very close. I'm comfortable in this environment, but can certainly understand that many musicians may not be. -- Marc