Your Tone.. and how you achieve it..

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 5 Jun 2005 9:10 am

Please elaborate on how you would define your tone.. what you hear in your head and out of your amp.. trebly?.. bassy? middy?..

I see my tone as a kind of spacey,airy sound when I play slow stuff.. not really a classic country sound... More the way Sneaky Pete sounds on a slow tune. Etherial.. like that word??... I also try to sound more like the "west coast" stylists on faster stuff and traditional country...
I try to get a sound similar to Mooney, Brumley... that sort of tone.. To do this I use very lightly wound pickups on my steels.. My Carter has 12 K with a coil tap at 8 like an old Fender was wound .

That and the old Fender tube amps I use, give me a bright glassy sound.. Not piercing but not very bassy and fat either.. NOT a good jazz, swing, or pop sound.. THATS for sure!.. I love the BIG FAT, RICH sound that other players get, but I would not know how to make it work with my very basic E9 playing...

anyway, kindly take the time to elaborate a bit on YOUR tone, how you get it, what it means to you and how you use it. I am interested and I KNOW others will be also.. bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 05 June 2005 at 06:42 PM.]

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 5 Jun 2005 10:16 am

A tone that I try to get is something like Tom Brumley's tone on Dwight Yoakem's 'The Heart That You Own', or Tom's tone on Chris Isaak's 'Except The New Girl.
This tone is quite unlike Tom's earlier sound, it is deep but clear.
Amp settings are essential, of course, but so too is the position of the picking hand, and how heavy/lightly the strings are picked.
R B

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 5 Jun 2005 10:44 am

I believe there is a tone that sounds good when at home alone, cut the highs and mids a bit, not harsh, more warm, but in a band setting this tone gets buried and bringing up the higher mids around 1300 Hz(but not overly to be harsh or honky) cuts through with less volume. I always thought Brumleys tone on "Garden Party" was about as good as it gets, a wood guitar with presence. I like my black PP, it has an 18.5 ohm single coil, somewhat that Emmons metalic sound but still warm with that pickup through a Session 400 LTD with a 1502, my home guitar is another PP with a lighter wound pickup goes through a Peavey Heritage and is different but still nice

Robert Jones · Post by **Robert Jones** » 5 Jun 2005 10:46 am

I'm sure that I can say that each and everyone of us did not achive our tones over night. In fact I was close to 6 years getting the tone I believe works for me. I have tried not to (for lack of a better term) duplicate someones tone. My tone has came from a combination of Tube Works preamps and reverb units along with George L 10-1 pickups. The position of ones right hand comes into play as well.

The tone I get is full with lots of low end when I'm on the C 6th neck and still a little heavy when I'm on the E 9th. My highs are clean but yet they don't part your hair when you open up. My mids are somewhere in between. For me the combination works very well. When you hear Paul Franklin play you can tell by the way he is playing that it's Paul. Same with Loyd Green and the list goes on. I can only hope that if anyone ever hears me that they can say that they know it's me because of the tone that I have obtained over the years. Of course I'm nobody special. I sure love playing and listening to others play.

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Mullen Royal Percision D-10 Red Laquar Pearl inlay 8&8
"Life is too short for bad tone".

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 5 Jun 2005 12:59 pm

I can't describe my tone. It was just evolvement over the last 36 years (of attempting) playing Pedal Steel.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 5 Jun 2005 1:39 pm

I might be a heavy-handed butcher, but I find really high noises to be extremely annoying so I just zap them out. Every graphic equalizer I've ever owned has a slider centered around 6.3K or 6.4K and I slam that puppy all the way to the floor, if there are any higher ones on there I kill them too. This lets me dial in enough upper midrange and lower treble to please me while eliminating the potential danger of ever sounding dentist drillish-shrieky or insectoidly-transistorish.

This is very helpful to me, because I love to fool with wah-wahs, fuzztones, compressors etc. and they simply can't wah or fuzz frequencies that just aren't there. The rest of my settings vary from day to day, depending on what I'm trying to achieve and what else is plugged in, keeping in mind that human ears spent millions of years flapping around the verdure and veldts of Africa, evolving in response to the trebly tickle of vegetation indicating prey, the basso roar of the beastly predators but primarily, in response to the human voice. There's a reason violins and saxophones and guitars are more popular than piccolos and tubas - mid-range frequencies tweak more brain cells, more efficiently.

What's odd to me is that I spend probably 80% of my listening time listening to acoustic instruments, sitars and sarods and classical violins and stuff.* For some reason or another it takes me 47-bazillion knobs to make my toys fun to play with, blame Frank Zappa and the Grateful Dead I guess. Though I do spend a lot of early-morning hours practicing unplugged steel and soldbody electrics, and I tend to stay away from pitch-shifting effects like choruses when I'm being serious.

*(Though calling any instrumental noise "acoustic" when you stick a mike on it, transmit neutrons, electrons, protons, whatever, down an electrical cord to a mixer, jack around with them relentlessly, zap them onto the surface of a plastic CD, mail it out to me so that I can stick it back into my own collection of circuitry which un-zaps them in the vague hope of making an "acoustic" noise is pushing it, methinks.)

Bill Miller · Post by **Bill Miller** » 5 Jun 2005 1:44 pm

My tone, such as it is varies quite a bit, even in the same song. If I'm playing in the background I tend to mellow the tone by picking farther from the changer and when I want to stand out more I use a brighter tone by picking closer to the changer. I always like to have lots of bottom end rumble available when I want it. That's not a problem with my modded Session 400 Limited. The mod took away the harshness of the highs but maybe a little too much. I hope to try a SGBB eventually to see if it will add a touch of sparkle. I don't miss the harshness but I'd like to replace it with just a bit of compression-like snap...and purer, sweeter highs than I had before the mod. I know tone is in the hands, but a little is in the amp too.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 5 Jun 2005 5:04 pm

On pedal steel, I have several tones for different purposes, but always like clarity and warmth at the same time. I cut the low midrange (250-800 Hz), accentuate the high-mid and low-high frequencies a bit, try to keep the extremely shrill high-end down, and adjust lows to taste.

My main gigging steel right now (Country/Americana and sometimes bluesy music), is an early 80s BMI S-10 with a Lawrence 705 pickup. It has a ton of presence and it's light. I also use an 80s Sierra S-14 Universal and 70s MSA Classic D-10, which are quite a bit smoother sounding. They sound better for more bluesy/jazzy stuff to me.

My amps range from a Session-500 or LTD-400 to a 69 Dual Showman Reverb into a separate JBL or EV cab to a '64 Deluxe Reverb with EV SRO speaker to a Pod into a clean-sounding 50-watt solid state Ampeg bass amp. I use a little onboard reverb, just a hair of compression and sometimes a very small amount of delay, never anything else.

For Country/Americana, I try to keep it real clean with a lot of presence (probably more 'west-coast school'), warm it up a bit for swingy stuff, and push yet harder for more bluesy or rockin' material. It never gets what I'd call real distorted, just a bit of power tube overdrive. 

If I use a lap steel, I go for a more Ry Cooder/David Lindley/Sonny Landreth approach - usually some gain, increased midrange, and sharply-reduced trebles on a Les Paul Jr. with an extension nut or postwar Ricky Bakelite BD-6. A small 50s Fender/Gibson/Valco tweed amp is ideal, but they're one-trick ponies for me and I don't generally carry multiple amps to gigs. 

The Pod/Ampeg can be tweaked to do everything acceptably for gigs, including the switches to electric guitar and banjo, but compromises must be made. If I need more volume and a lot of tonal variation, I plug the Pod into the Power-Amp-In of the Session 500.

Picking technique, which I need to work on constantly, is obviously critical. I like to move to and away-from the changer a lot, more staccato at the changer, more smooth Hawaiian-style away from it. I sometimes like to audibly slide around a bit, depending on the context - enough so that I've thought of trying ground-wound or flat-wound strings.

All this variation may sound a bit schizophrenic, and it is. But there's nobody around here playing just classic country. If I want to play steel out, I need to be adaptable.

Ted Solesky · Post by **Ted Solesky** » 5 Jun 2005 6:56 pm

Bob, the pickups I used on that clip you heard of me on the forum 'He stopped loving her today', I used the BL pickup that has the 2 rows of single poles. I liked it for my touch and because I can get a rich and clear tone. Those, from what Big John told me, are wound to 29,000. I had my treble set at 2 1/2 for that tone on that clip. So, I have room for more highs if needed. I pick above the 24 fret.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 5 Jun 2005 8:48 pm

My tone depends on the song I'm playing. I set my amp(s) where I want it and leave it there. I like the XR-16 pick ups on both of my Carters. I use just a little delay(barely on) and a little reverb. My tone is usually changed by the way I play or attack the strings. If I want a "Conway" type sound or phrasing then I'll usually play close to the pick up. If I want a softer more mellow sound then I move away from the pick up and play the strings with a softer feel. If I want the old Fender sound then I get close to the pick up and pick the strings a little harder to bring out the effect I'm trying to get. Just depends on what I think will work on a particular song or if I'm looking for a certain sound. Everybody's different and this is just my little bit of info.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 5 Jun 2005 11:50 pm

I play hard rock, so I'm not too worried about getting a good clean sound for pedal steel. Most of what I'm looking for tone-wise resides in the amp, not the guitar. I like a hollow buzzy tone, something like what Tom Scholz got on the first Boston album. I can get this sound when recording (a little EQing during mixdown). As of late I bought a Fender Ultimate Chorus amp, and it has a very midrangey sound. I put Celestion speakers in it, and it leans a little toward the tone I'm looking for.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 6 Jun 2005 4:08 am

I want to add, I like to split my signal most times. If you're a big rock star with roadies you can use multiple amps, but you can get close with Y-cords, Y-adapters and mini-mixers too. A lot of effects like distortion work much better if you have separate volume (and EQ) controls so that you can blend in some clean sound. I don't like the way either reverb or chorus sounds through distortion, or the way distortion sounds through reverb or chorus, so I keep those on separate channels. If there was a cheap, easy way to run four channels I'd probably use them all, but the Y-splitters already introduce some line-loading wierdness and I've got to spend at least some time picking instead of twiddling knobs.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 6 Jun 2005 9:30 pm

Back in the Pre-’67 days, when I lived in Pa. I did a lot of Radio and most gus told me they knew it was me, by my tone. They said they liked it, but; I've never been completely happy with my sound! I've been working on my tone since 1948 and haven't really come as close to what I'm wanting as I am at right now! But, this is no time to lighten up for me! My Tone~Quest has probably been what has slowed down my progress in playing the most over the years! But, I guess ‘I–Yam–what–I–Yam’¡

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“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’49-’50 Fender T–8 Custom
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 7 Jun 2005 5:47 am

John... I am very glad you stated you are STILL searching for "your" sound.. and since 1948 no less!!! MANY of us are!

I'll bet however, "your" sound was perfected MANY years ago, but all these years have been spent BETTERING an already great sound/tone etc... bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 07 June 2005 at 11:47 AM.]

Ronald Comtois · Post by **Ronald Comtois** » 7 Jun 2005 11:20 am

I use a 6 band MXR graphic equalizer,set it in a "V" at the center. I also use a Boss RV3 unit.I'm getting great body and real nice highs

Ron Comtois

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 7 Jun 2005 12:55 pm

It usually takes me a couple of songs after I first sit down to get a tone that I like. I might tweak a knob or two, but mostly it's just that my hands need to get used to the instrument. I vary my tone per song by switching bars and by using different right and left hand techniques. There is a lot you can do with tone that has nothing to do with electronics.

I also like to use amps that have a good sounding distortion channel though. You can rock without distortion of course but that edge is often a welcome addition to the tone in certain songs.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 7 Jun 2005 1:37 pm

b0b.. I wonder if you could elaborate a bit on using different bars,and hand techniques to alter tone.. ??? ... I am interested in what you do and what it gets you?? . bob

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 7 Jun 2005 4:04 pm

Okay, Bob, here's what I think. The usual disclaimers apply (I am not a pro, your milage may vary, etc.).

Different bars sound different. The BJS steel is bright and clear, the zirconia is darker but still has plenty of sustain, the Shubb is thin with a bit less sustain, the glass almost sounds like a slide guitar. Those are the four that I keep handy.

Shaking the bar for vibrato gives a different tone than rolling it because of the added string noise. It's more of a blues tone. The shubb encourages that because of the finger groove grip. The BJS rolls very naturally. So there are these two different left hand styles.

The attack angle of the picks has an effect on tone. The closer you are to a right angle on the attack, the richer the harmonic content. The point on the string where you pick has a large effect on tone. You get the biggest harmonic content when you pick at the middle of the effective string length.

It usually takes me a few songs to settle in to the point where my hands understand the current auditory environment, to get the tones I want. There are a lot of variables in every situation so you can't really say do this or do that to get the "best" tone. What's best in one room or with one band isn't necessarily best in another.

I also have a passive tone control on my E9th to roll off the highs. So if I'm going for a dark, organ like tone I'll roll it back a quarter turn or more, and if I'm going for country twang I'll put it full on. It depends on the song.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 7 Jun 2005 8:39 pm

b0b.. Pretty interesting stuff!.. I give you credit for being able to do ANYTHING with a Shubb.. To me it feels totally alien and I want it OUT of my hand... I do alter my vibrato.. I am a "roller" normally, but will use a fast "wobble" to get a more slide sound and that does work.

I will change hand position to alter tone also, but you seem to have a better handle on using your hands,and bars to change tone...
I run to lots of knobs,switches, coil taps and various nefarious electronic widgets to alter my tone..
Your way sounds more practical, but requires actual skill!!.. I use the little magic box method which is the lazy players way..... thanks for elaborating b0b!!! bob

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 8 Jun 2005 5:07 am

Bob, I don't think anyone has mentioned the volume pedal. I may not be referring to "tone" here. Let's call it "the sound". The amount of volume at the time of attack has an effect on your sound. That is why I set my volume pedal so it does not drop the volume to zero. A "no volume" attack sounds "wimpy". a "full volume" attack sounds "harsh". Somewhere in between is what I strive for. The touch of your right hand is soooo important, regardless of any other factors. If you can play without a volume pedal and sound good, you have a decent grip on the thing called "touch"......JD

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 8 Jun 2005 5:21 am

John, as always you have a pretty good perspective. I have heard more nasty steel steel guitar sounds caused improper use of the vol.pedal, than just about any other cause except for inaccurate bar placement.

It amazes me that some guys are good players, but that touch on the pedal alludes them.. I would say I number myself among THAT group! Personally, I go to zero, and think I am too "on and off" with the pedal if that makes any sense...

Comes from the bands I have been with I think, years ago when I played with bands that had a nice EVEN sound level, I had the VP dialed in ok.. these days, I don't like the way I use it.... and you are right John.. It DOES affect the sound ! bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 08 June 2005 at 06:22 AM.]

Robbie Daniels · Post by **Robbie Daniels** » 8 Jun 2005 6:50 am

I go along with Bobby Lee. I also use different bars for different tones with strategic locations of the right hand. The closer to the pickup and the farther away you are with your right hand alters the tone that you are producing. My bars I have on hand are BJS, Red Rajah and my old stand by that was made for me by a machinist at the old Lawrence Radiation Lab in Livermore, CA gives me the best tone of all. It was made out of pure stainless steel 1" by about 3.25". It is heavier but produces my best sound. I have always been critical of my tone, I like a mellow tone and try to produce that as much as possible. I would surmise that everyone is individualistic about what they want out of any system that they may have and of course there goes the individual sound that makes the greats different.

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MSA D12, MSA S12, 1956 Rickenbacker D8, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200, Peavey Transfex Pro

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 8 Jun 2005 11:16 am

I don't think I have a tone that's exclusively mine. It's sort of a generic tone for a modern steel. Don't get me wrong, I like the way it sounds, but, it's not my own, privately. In fact, I don't think I'd want to be locked into just one type of tone. As stated before, various reasons will change the tone you think you have anyway. Inside or outside gigs, atmospheric changes, more or less people in a club, all kinds of stuff will make you go crazy chasing that elusive tone. Unless you can play in a controlled setting, over and over again,(i.e. the same club or stage or studio) your tone will change each time you set up. Also, not everybody knows that the sound on stage is different than the sound you project into the audience. So, there lies another problem to deal with, especially if you have a sound guy screwing up your tone. I just set it up the way I like to hear it and let the notes fall where they may.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 8 Jun 2005 11:30 am

John.. I'd bet the ranch you have more of "your" tone than you realize!!.. If you dial it in to where YOUR ears say,,"we're good" each time you play, its pretty much "your sound" no?.. That may be a simple way of looking at it, but it makes some kind of half assed sense. I suppose! bob

Jack Dougherty · Post by **Jack Dougherty** » 8 Jun 2005 12:06 pm

I Pick sync..

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There is no such thing as too many steels!! Zum D10 8/8
Electronics.. constant state of flux