How much work in Gatlinburg,Pigeonforge?

Gary Schuldt · From: Seymour, TN.

Hi Guys,
Just trying to get a little feedback if i can. I'm taking early retirement this year, and relocating to Gatlinburg TN.I have been there several times on vacation.I would like to know if there is room for one more accomplished bass player, i play upright and elec.My steel playing is not near that good to play out. so let's scratch that idea.
I know there is Dollywood and the theatres,but other than those, are there other venues and other groups that just play out nightly.I'm just looking to hook up with a group to play either Bluegrass or Country to play a few days a week to supplement my retirment, and because i love to play.I would imagine there would be quite a big music scene there,being the tourist destination that it is.I would certainly appreciate any information fellow forum members could give me.
Thanks Guys,Keep Steelin!!!!
Gary Schuldt

Walter Hamlin · From: Talladega, Alabama, USA

Gary:
There is an expert on the subject here on the forum. Mr. Herby Wallace. He can tell you what you want to know.
I hear there is not much work there anymore.
Some of the shows have closed down and the last time I was there, some of the buildings looked as if they needed repair.
Hope you enjoy your retirement and get to play all you want.
Walter

Herby Wallace · From: Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.

Dear Gary,

Well, I hate to bring bad news, but I have been considering the possibility of relocating some place else as the music business around here is terrible. I can't buy a job as they say! Also, as far as bass players, two friends of mine in the area who are excellent players are: Ben Brogdon and Burton Akers and neither of them can find anything. I have lived here for almost 16 years and the music scene has gotten worse instead of better. There are some musicians working, but it's not what you would expect by the number of people who come to this area for vacations. Some people think I have a bad attitude, but to give you an example, the last job I played locally was New Year's Eve and I don't have anything even booked locally. Also, I might mention that there isn't much around here as far as spot jobs either. Most of the music jobs are either Dollywood or some of the theatres. Another example of people out of work is my piano player buddy from the area named Charlie Rule, who played on my last 3 albums. Charlie is one of the finest I have ever worked with and even has a Master's Degree in music and he doesn't have anything either. I am trying not to get carried away about how I feel, but I have been playing steel guitar since I was 9 years old and I'm 57 now, and back when I worked the road in the sixties and seventies, it mattered how you played when you got a job. Now at least up here, it doesn't matter how one plays, because most people doing the hiring don't really know the difference. Another good example is singer, Con Hunley, who is one of the finest I have ever worked with can't find anything as well as his sister, Ruth Akers, who I think is the finest female singer in this area. This is why I say that how you play or sing doesn't matter anymore.

I'll shut up for now, and I'm sorry to give you the bad news, but that's how it is. I will say though that I do like the area for a place to live, but I don't make any money locally. Also, I might mention that those that are working, the pay scales are ridiculous and about 30 years behind times. Of course, I think this is true in many other parts of the country.

Herby Wallace

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Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Herby wrote:

Gary Schuldt · From: Seymour, TN.

Herbie and Walt,
Thanks for the info on Pigeonforge and Gatlinburg. We are still planning on moving there.I guess i'll just be satisfied if anything comes along. Maybe just find some folks to jam with. I know you don't remember me Herbie, but i have met you at different steel shows the past few years.I have a couple BJS bars i bought from you.My Fiance and i are getting married at Wears Valley in Pigeonforge this May. I'd like to stop into your shop sometime Herb. If not in May, when we move there later this year.Maybe i can sell corn dogs at Dollywood ha ha ha!!!!!
Talk to you later guys .Thank you again.
Gary Schuldt
Left Hand Cougar SD-10
Nashville 400

Frank Estes · From: Huntsville, AL

I wonder what has happened? Here in North Alabama, weekend warrior bands could get an American Legion job or a "granny grabber" dance job and may make $50+ for playing 3 hours and we are not talking about some dive. In fact, the ones I occasionally did, would not serve alcohol or permit smoking.

It seems since 9/11/01, that people are not into going out and dancing. The elderly folks were using the dances as exercise and for socializing. I do not know if 9/11 had anything to do with it, but it sounds like things are slow everywhere.

It is really a shocking how the Pigeon Forge area is regarding country music jobs. You would think that would be like Branson was.

I remember seeing some news item about Branson when it was first booming and someone made the remark, "The last one to leave Nashville, please remember to turn off the lights."

I wonder how Branson is doing now...

Michael Breid · From: Eureka Springs, Arkansas, USA

Well said Herby. My hat's off to you for telling it like it is. I live south of Branson and work in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. I understand in Branson that people are opening up linen closets in motels just to have a place to perform. I know of one place that cleaned up their storage room, put a blanket over the door opening and a few lights inside and now have a small theater with a show. From the Branson musicians I work with occasionally I hear that it's "cutthroat city" as far as musicians are concerned. If you will work for X amount of dollars there are three people waiting outside to underbid you and get your job. Just about three or four theaters, the old standbys still have the same acts. Acts move each year to a new theater. If you see one act in one theater in 2005, don't expect them to be there in 2006, or even six months after you see them. It's like musical chairs up there. Yep, I have to agree with Herby on this one. It's not how well you play it's how well you B.S. the theater owners. Most of them don't know a major from a minor chord about music, but they think they know it all. I know one guy who is an average player, but an excellent B.S. artist and he's always working. What is it they say? "Money talks, but bulls**t walks"? And now you know the rest of the story. Keep honing up your chops though because you never know when someone might want a real good player and you just might fit the bill.

Herby Wallace · From: Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.

Well here I go again. I should know better by now to keep my opinions to myself, but I do have a big mouth. One positive thing I will say since I've lived up here. I worked a theatre in 1997 and 1998 with Jim Ed Brown, Helen Cornelius, and Con Hunley. We also had an excellent band and it was really a first class show. Everybody in the band could read charts and knew how to play. When we would rehearse, we usually just ran a tune one time and we had it. This job fell through the second season. We were making $100.00 per night six nights a week the first year and half way through the second year our pay was cut to $58.00 per night they said because the attendance was off. Anyhow, I left the show in October the second year, because of some steel guitar shows I had booked and I couldn't turn down to make $58.00 per night. Of course the theatre closed 2 months later anyway, but there were musicians standing by to take the job for $58.00 and not even complain.

Frank, you mentioned clubs paying $50.00 per night. In my opinion, these type pay scales are at least 30 years behind times. I played VFWs, American Legions and so on in Chattanooga in the early seventies and made $60.00 per night. Compare that to what has happened to the cost of living in thirty years and see how far $50 or $60 will go. The problem though still is with musicians who will work for any amount or even nothing just to get to play. This would be like working a day job for $1.50 or $2.00 an hour just to get to work. Now luckily there are a few exceptions, such as: Con Hunley. I have worked with Con for several years when he works and as I've said Con is one of the finest singers I have ever worked with and also a good piano player. All the guys who work in his band are excellent players. I'm not saying this braging on myself, but all the other players are first class all the way. For example, when we played New Year's Eve, we were all reading charts, and everyone played the correct chords, the hook licks, the proper fills and so on. I contribute Con having a good band to the fact that he is a good singer and piano player and does know the difference, so there is some hope. The only problem is that we don't work much.

Speaking of working in this area, I have also tried to get a job doing background music with my tracks and I can't find any place who will pay anything. I had one of these come up the other day, but there was no pay. There comment was that I could make money either with tips or maybe sell some CDs. I can't afford to play for nothing as I would have to set up a PA, CD deck and cassette deck in addition to my steel equipment to play for nothing and hope I might luck up and sell a CD or get a tip. Anyhow, the problem with these situations is Karaoke since these singers usually work for nothing.

Well once again I'll shut up, but it is a shame that music has gotten this way.

Herby Wallace

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Gary Schuldt · From: Seymour, TN.

Hi Herbie.
Thanks for your imput again. When i get there, i might even apply and audition at some of the theatres. I would have thought there would be some Bluegrass going on arount the area. I saw a couple groups there last year. one was playing on the front porch of the Park Grill, the other was set up in front of ET's record shop just about every night.
Herbie, I don't want to bother you much more, but when you were playing Dollywood and some of the other venues,were you on thier payroll system or was musicians paid under the table . I would hate to get on a payroll with some company, it would mess up my S.S and pension payments.
As i said before ,I love playing music, and a few bucks don,t hurt either
Thanks for your imput guys
Gary Schuldt,
Pickin in Geneva N.Y.

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

playing country music is fun,we play in front yard,loud and have lots of people stopping in, bringing cases of beer ect. and smoking don't bother no one.as a friend told me,we are playing the way to enjoy it.
anyone grips about how loud we are,go farther down the road. farris

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

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[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 April 2005 at 03:23 AM.]

Joe Alterio · From: Irvington, Indiana

I am reading all of this with great interest.

Here's my take.

Playing "originals":

The music *club* scene today is quite unfavorable to the good players. Using my locale (Indianapolis) as an example....there are only a handful of music clubs/bars that are known for bringing in local, live music every weekend, if not every day. As a result, these are the places that everyone wants to play (who wants to play for 10 people, right?). However, it is NOT the club owners who are to blame for the pittance pay....it is the bands.

Not the good bands mind you.....the bands that are so desperate to play, that they would even be willing to play for FREE or for TIPS in order to play at the club. Not that they get to play there very often....but the club/bar owners hold this fact over your head. "You want HOW MUCH?!? Why, Jeb Jones is willing to play for nothing, so why would I want to pay you guys more than $50, etc." BTW...that's $50 for THE BAND....TOTAL.

So what are the good bands to do? Either you play in front of a large crowd (good!) for little money (bad!) or you play very irregularly at odd shows in front of small crowds (bad!) for a bit more pay (eh...). Neither situation is good.

But, if you want to play out, this is how it is. It appears no different in Nashville, where last August I saw some of the best pedal steel players in the world (Hughey, Sweeney, Wendt, etc.) playing for the tip jar on Broadway.

The good news?

Playing "covers":
Cover bands can make a LOT of money (outside of TN, that is!). In the Midwest, there is NO shortage of animal lodges....elks, moose, eagles, etc. Average pay is $400/night, and the work is weekend-steady. Around Indy, there is a snobbishness among many "original"-style musicians that cover bands have no musical talent, etc. That is obviously laughable in my eyes.....the fact is, though, if you play covers and don't mind not being part of the music "scene" at the hot clubs, you can make a lot doing corporate events, lodges, museum shows, etc.

I love Nashville and seeing the best in the world playing on Broadway.....but when I left Nashville a few months ago, all I kept thinking was "every one of those musicians on Broadway was 100 times better than anyone playing in Indianapolis, with maybe one or two exceptions......they could have any high-paying gig in Indy they want...."

Joe

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

love playing in front yard,hell if you make a mistake,who cares,stop and start over.no i'm not pro,but having fun.i've been down that road, got to be just right. stop and eat breakfast spent all we made.and noone really cares anyway. we build a new wing on american legand club. and we barely made expensives. no i can't spell either.
farris

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

A brief synopsis of the scene in Austin TX for traditional country music, probably not complete but close enough for country...

The Broken Spoke: Tuesday night, tips only in the front room; Wednesday night, 80% of the door at $4 cover charge, generally very little crowd; Thursday night, regular band "Chaparral" night, so that night is sewed up; Friday and Saturday, 80% of the door at $8 cover generally... could be good ($125 each on up), could be sucky. This is the Last of the Mohicans for country dance halls with a cover charge in Austin.

Ginny's Little Longhorn, home of Redd Volkaert (every Monday), Justin Trevino (every Wednesday), Dale Watson (every Thursday and Sunday): no cover, tips only. When I've played there I've made between $35 and $60 on an even band split. Fun place to play.

Continental Club: opening band gets paid around $200; headliner gets more, depending on the act. Only has traditional country a couple nights a week, but it's an Americana club (blues, roots, r&b, country) so things can vary. Redd plays Sat. happy hour.

Ego's (very small cocktail lounge): Ricky and Redd, Dale Watson, those types occasionally play there, all kinds of music similar in booking to the Continental, also blues/jazz/rock bands. When I play there I make $40 to $60.

Midnight Rodeo: Hot New Country and Texas Music (neo country-rock) artists, formerly a line-dancing club that still has holdovers from that era. Place most likely to find viewers of CMT and those who lament passing of the Nashville Network's line dancing shows in the audience. Been so long since I've played there I've forgotten what I got paid.

Taz Country: Country cover band place in Pflugerville, about the last of that type of place up in North Austin. I don't play Top 40 or Hot New Country, so I couldn't tell you what these places pay. Probably around $80-100 per man on Friday/Saturdays.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 01 April 2005 at 10:51 AM.]

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

I have lived in the Atlanta area for the past 35 years and made my living playing music all that time.

I consider myself a professional musician whatever in the heck that is. I have a union card, been there and done all that there is.

The best gigs in this area are wedding gigs. These pay about $250+ each man and whatever the leader makes is his business. There are several bands in the area that play this stuff every weekend. The corporate events pay this also. I worked a real estate show the other morning for an awards ceremony and made $300. Leader brought in the music, sat it on the stands and counted it off. Country club/business clubs etc pay about $150-200 a night--leader takes all he can. Broadway shows pay about $1500 a week. I have done three already this year some lasting more than a week, and I have two more to do in the next month. These are high stress gigs where traveling shows come in, throw the music in front of you and you rehearse it in the afternoon and do the show that night. You can't cut it--your fired. Concerts, floor shows, etc. pay about $300 and that includes a rehearsal. Sometimes you can negotiate some more $. I got a call for a show with an old vocal group "The Four Lads". Leader offered $250, I said that I had played his show before and thought that $350 was more in line and he agreed--that's business, this time it went my way, sometimes it does not. Club gigs---this is what stinks these days. These are the gigs that any Tom, Dick, and Harry with an instrument can do. Clubowners have their pick from lot's of players who will play cheap and therefore the pay is not much here. "White boy" blues clubs pay about $50 or so---there were a lot of these in the Atlanta area at one time. Little BBQ joints and such and even one sheek part of town where folks with no groove at all go to take their dates and try to act cool. No money here because all the kids who know 3 Eric Clapton/SRV licks fight for these. Jazz gigs are around between $50-100. Nice little restaurant things. Some could pay more but don't and some smaller places pay decent--just according to how stingy management is. The country music VFW/Bar/joint gigs are in the $50-100 a night mode. I don't work them so I don't know a lot about what is going on there. I do know a few top notch organized, rehearsed country bands that do just fine playing all sorts of events and parties.

There are still gigs out there. You just got to hustle and find them. You can't play only one kind of music and make it. I play a lot of different instruments and that helps. If you are over the age of 50 and look it---your not going to get called for a lot of gigs anymore--face it. If your living in the past musically--your not going to get called. If you got a bad attitude--forget it.

This is a tough business that changes constantly unlike most musicians! It's chickens one day and feathers the next.

Edit. I forgot one of the most important gigs for todays'musicians--church jobs. So many churches are playing contemporary music and often times they don't have a strong player in house so they will hire a pro player to fill in. My church gig pays right at $30K a year and is quite a demanding job. All new music nearly every week, services on Wed. night and two on Sunday morning. You might think that this job pays more than its' worth but I have to work hard!! Considering that the music minister just plays guitar and sings and leads worship and makes $70K a year, I feel just fine with what they offered me. Check these church jobs out! Folks are so nice to you and treat you great.

[This message was edited by Bill Hatcher on 01 April 2005 at 12:52 PM.]

Pat Burns · From: Branchville, N.J. USA

Mike Archer · From: church hill tn

herby is right i worked pigeon forge
with TG SHEPPARD IN 95 AND 96 AND SOME
SUB JOBS AFTER THAT AND I HAVE NOT GOT ANY WORK DOWN THAT WAY IN SEVERAL YEARS
THE LAST GIG I WORKED DOWN THERE WAS
THE ALWAYS PATSY CLINE THING WHICH LASTED ALL OF 6 WEEKS AND I LOST 3 DAYS PAY DUE TO
THE CLOSE OUT WITH OUT NOTICE
SO ITS WAY WORSE
IF YOU DO GET A GIG THEY WILL WANT YOU TO
PLAY 5 OR 6 INSTRUMENTS AND SING AND
MANY MORE CHORES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Tim Harr · From: Dunlap, Illinois

In Central Illinois playing clubs..I make between $80-$150 a night steady. I have more work than I can actually use here... If I wanted to play every weekend in about three or four bands at a time I could.

I usually only play about 1 or two nights a month... by choice

Larry Hicks · From: Alabama, USA

Guys, you aren’t alone! The Birmingham area is the same way . . . a few very busy bands, and then LOTS of talented players wondering why they can’t seem to “buy” a decent band job.

That’s not to say that there aren’t any jobs to be had here. You can find work (if you’re lucky) if you are willing to play for dirt!
I went to see a friend’s band last night (Thursday) that is made up of fifty-odd year old guys. They were extremely “okay!” They played for the door. There are seven guys in the band . . . do the math. The club owner was happy.

In this town (and I suspect this is the case in most cities), if they ain’t heard it on the radio, it ain’t “real” music.
Ipso-facto . . . I’m lucky enough to be in the best “cover” band of my life (40 years of gigging, 12 years with this band), and because we aren’t willing to play for the door, we can’t seem to buy a job! That’s a crime, dammit!

All that having been said, the worst trend seems to be club owners who are self-appointed experts. I’ve had a few owners to tell me that it is the band’s duty to bring in the crowd . . . not the club’s! “I only hire bands that can bring in the crowd” (I dare say that B’ham is not unique) In this town there MIGHT be six or seven bands that can consistently draw large crowds. Probably more like three or four. (And there are LOTS of talented players in B’ham) It’s just another example of the owners beating the players down by claiming to know the "bidniss." A good four-piece band is lucky to make $650 for a two-nighter.

Okay, what are we left with? I’ll tell you . . . most of us are left with that ITCH that makes us keep going out there and playing for way too little remuneration.

Still, though, after all these years, I still love playing the honky tonks and the road-side joints (in addition to the “good” jobs) ‘cuz that’s where you meet the fun folks.

“Okay guys, this is in “G”, a little “D” turn-around up front, the keyboard kicks it off......ya’ll keep up......”

Larry

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I. IV, V (and sometimes II & VI)
www.tonemarkspeakers.com

Bobby Boggs · From: Upstate SC.

Ain't that the way it goes.Tim's the only guy here that's really got it going on and don't want it.

Rick McDuffie · From: Benson, North Carolina, USA

If you play several instruments, play them very well, and can play a variety of styles, that also helps. Versatility is the key these days, it seems. If you can front the band, that's a valuable skill. McCartney fronted the Beatles as a bass player, and that went rather well- no reason that a bass man can't do that.

If you're waiting for a bandleader to hire you, it probably won't happen. Hang around the local music stores, get to know people, jam with some folks, organize your own band, then get out and scare up some bookings. You may have to play for tips until you build a following.

Don't expect any help from the people who already have the gigs... they will protect them jealously- figure out how to get around them. You can usually do this by playing better than they do, for less money

Or find a new place that wants to have live music, but doesn't know who to call or how to get started.

At least, that's the way it works around Raleigh, NC. I don't expect that it's much different in east Tennessee.

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 02 April 2005 at 05:35 AM.]

Pat Burns · From: Branchville, N.J. USA

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Lennon wouldn't disagree at all. McCartney fronted the band. Thats just a fact.

Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Here in this area things may be different, I know a band that makes $7,000 a week end, some have corp, jobs and are thinking of quiting the day jobs cause theu are making more playing music.
There are places that have not been taped because guys have their head in the sand and are waiting for it to come to them. Go out a create your Job.
I know one man that worked a gig, played for 45 min, payed $250.00 and sold $300.00 worth of CDs, I know I worked the CD table, they were buying 3 for 30, and I sold them.
We are playing dances for older folk for nothing because we love the people that attend, and they like us, and enjoy the music.
Trash me if you will but there is a field that is almost untouched, it pays well, and is rewarding, all you have to do now is find out what I am saying, I could do it but I have other fish to fry.

ernie

ernie

ernie

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