Musicians playing for nothing

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

I spent a week in Forida in the St. Petersberg area and listened to some entertainment at the open bars near the beach. One of the guitar players who usually works by himself at these gigs is a talented player by the name of Dennis Wallace.

He also works with a talented mandolin and fiddle player that I understand play for nothing except tips just to play while they are in the area.

What a trio of massive talent playing everything from bluegrass to Beatles. I was very impressed and let them know it. I also made my donation to the tip jar but it looked rather empty. I guess beer & brains don't mix.

[This message was edited by Len Amaral on 30 March 2005 at 08:21 AM.]

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Len, welcome to the "Florida music scene". Although I'm fortunate to work a lot of paying jobs in the winter months, there are more "jams" around with places that want you to play for nothing. Or, places that will only pay for a "1 man band".

With all the tourist spots, there's not very many (none that I know of) that have "country" music. They are mostly looking for the 1 or 2 man "bands" or a Jimmy Buffet type of act.

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

Len
I have to agree with Jack.
When I lived in Massachusettes I got paid for all my playing.
Here in Florida if it wasn't for the band I'm in it would all be for nothing or tips.
Karaoke is cheaper than hiring a band, so that's what you come up against.
Remember, KEEP YOUR DAY JOB if you want to eat.
Don

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Thats a disgrace...When the days comes where I have to play for free, thats the day I sell everything.. INCLUDING the steels..I know my attitude is crappy,BUT like it says in the old Willie Nelson song,....."If you want to dance you have to pay the band" ...IMHO, the REASON some places want free entertainment is because they have NO trouble GETTING it...good musicians should NOT have to play for free,,bob

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Even many top shelf/veteran 'off night' road warriors are finding it impossible to eek out a living in the States any more. They say the bad economy is killing everything. Clubs are closing/few are opening, and bands will play for dirt, just to play. But that's nothing new. Unless you're willing to play garbage, you probably ain't working, and it'll never change for the better for us here.

Many are finding greener grass in Europe, where they are much more appreciated and paid properly.

Smiley Roberts · From: Hendersonville,Tn. 37075

...so......I guess we're "very fortunate",gettin' $20 in NashVILE!

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Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Smiley, "Broadway Wages" have always sucked!
The rate has really taken a dramatic jump in the last 30 years from $15 when I was there......

Robert Porri · From: Windsor, Connecticut, USA

I remember a band I played with a number or years ago was playing for door take. I knew we weren't going to get much, but I was hoping to have enough to take my family out for breakfast the next morning. I ended up joking at the end of the night with the other guys in the band about my plans, and how with the money we DID end up getting paid, that I guess I'd just have to buy a box of pancake mix instead.

I currently just have an occasional gig with my wife singing and myself playing and singing. For this duo effort, we get paid OK. $100-$200 usually. I've always hated the idea of playing for tips. My thought on that changed a little last summer though, when I saw 2 of the best area performers I've ever seen playing for just that. And their attitude about it was positive.

Bob P.

Chris Walke · From: St Charles, IL

I hear about that horrible pay Nashville. That's too bad. Playing in the west suburbs of Chicago, my 5-piece band gets no less than $100 per man. Usually it's $125-150. Don't know what the country bands are making. We're a pop/rock cover band.

Original music, on the other hand, can barely book in the suburbs and make minimal cash...$50 per man in a Chicago venue is a good night unless we really pull a crowd in, in my experience.

[This message was edited by Chris Walke on 30 March 2005 at 12:37 PM.]

Keith Cordell · From: San Diego

I worked briefly in LA in the early '90's and you actually had to buy the tickets for your show and sell them to get your money... book the gig, pay the club IN ADVANCE, and hope you fill it up to get a little money back out of it. Outrageous.

Larry Hamilton · From: Amarillo,Tx

Due to regular job,locomotive engineer, I am not able to play on a regular basis like I once did and wish I could again. I am fortunate enough to have some good friends that still play in about the only country place left in Amarillo. When I need my Bandstand "fix" I call them to see if I can set in, usually on a Sunday night since they just play 3 piece most of the time. Luckily I am always welcome. AHHHHHH the "fix". Now if they or someone calls and wants to hire me, and I am able, then I get paid. I love the steel guitar and love playing in bands so I have to do what I have to do to play. Just my little story.

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Keep pickin', Larry

Al Miller · From: Waxahachie Texas

Smiley !!
AMEN!!!!
Thats Exactly Why Im In Dallas
4 Hours In The Back Room Of tootsie's In Mid july Was Killing Me !!
But I Cant say I Didnt Learn A Boat Load and Had I Blast .... Im Sure Buddie And Jimmie Did the same thing But They Probably Made $20.00 For 4 Hours In 1960..
But Then You Had Faron ,little Jimmy,Loretta,and the likes to pick with Not Nervana...
Boo Miller

Chris Bauer · From: Nashville, TN USA

Smiley - You forgot to mention the $45 parking ticket you usually need to pay in order to load your equipment for that $20 gig!

By the way, when did gigs go up to $20 around here???

JW Day · From: Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA

LEN BEING A VETERAN,I HAVE MOSTLY STUCK TO THE PRIVATE VETERAN CLUBS AROUND MY NECK OF THE RASIN',WHICH WAS AROUND OWENSBORO,KY OR AT LEAST WITHIN 50 MILES.WE FOUND THAT AFTER GETTING ESTABLISHED,WE COULD USUALLY PULL DOWN AN AVERAGE OF ABOUT 75 BUCKS,WHICH ISN'T BAD FOR AN OLE' DIRT FARMER.WE WOULD TRY TO STAY AT LEAST 2 YEARS BEFORE WE LEFT,AND ALWAYS TRY TO HAVE A FULL HOUSE.WE DIDN'T BURN ANY BRIDGES THIS WAY.I WONDER IF ANY OF THE OTHER GUYS HAVE WORKED LIKE THIS

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

How many of you guys use digital, canned accompaniment; such as a Rhythm Master, instead of hiring other musicians to back you up your instrumental recordings?

I have a nephew who owns a recording studio in Edmonton Alberta and he says that the canned accompaniment electronics is really hitting their industry hard.

I guess we can’t complain about our own kettles being black.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

All good responses and stories. Concerning this particular outdoor bar where these talented fellows were playing, it was jam packed with people and you had to wait 15 minutes to get a drink. The cash register was ringing up a storm.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Its th4e musicians own fault for playing for tips.

Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

JW,,
I to work the Veterans clubs, and the Critter clubs around Kingman, and Bullhead City, Az. Karaoke is really hitting us hard around here. We are fortunate to still get $50-$75 per person for a 4 pc. Hate to try a live on that!!
Larry

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Emmons S/D-10, 3/4, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

John Daugherty · From: Rolla, Missouri, USA

In the early '80s a guy said he would pay my expenses to move to Florida (Naples area)to play for him. He then told me we would get paid by sitting a beer pitcher on the bar for tips. Now, how's that for an offer to go bigtime?

Wayne Franco · From: silverdale, WA. USA

I think I could play as much as I want to around here. The country western band stuff has all but dried up so thank goodness I'm not totally tied into that. I'm playing what I want to and everything I practice, which as a side man was never possable. I never fronted a band I was in until now. Most of my gigs are 2 hours and I usually make a minimum of $100.00 bucks. I'd like to work up to a trio or four piece if the money is there but for now i'm pretty happy.With my computer back up I can play places that live drums and more than a couple of musicians would in most cases just be too loud. Everyone can hear the subtle string changes, lots of head room for tone and feeling.
And I think it is good for steel guitar for people to hear a variety of music that can be played on the steel. Most don't even know you can play NewYork New York on a steel if all they hear is steel on the radio. Well, I guess you know where I'm at right now!

billy tam R.I.P. · From: baton rouge, louisiana

When I started playing steel in 1973 our band started working a three night gig @ $75/night. Still playing(tho not for a living) I make $100-125 per night locally. I don't think inflation has caught up with pay for players.

thanks
billy tam

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I just like to play so if there are no money gigs I play gigs for fun. Then at the no money gig somebody always comes up and wants me to play with them. After a while I get way too busy and only have time for the better shows that pay. Things are good and it seems like everybody is happy to pay me to play with them. Its nice because I'm able to play music that I really enjoy and keep a roof over my head these days. I'm sure things will drop off sooner than later. I sort of look forward slow times because that will give me a chance to work on a big stack of music that is just waiting for me to learn it. I didn't start playing music to make a living at it. Its mostly been an accident.

I'm lucky that I live in such a great music city. NYC still has a vibrant night life and music scene. I don't know what I would do just about anywhere else. BTW: Europe is not so great for gigs outside of the concert music scene. Its tough for guys over there too.

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Bob
intonation help

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

I would say I average at about $200-250 pr gig over here in the frozen north, anything less than $150 is out of the question unless it's a very special occasion..

I think it was someone on this forum who said in a similar thread, long ago; "If you pay me peanuts you'll get a monkey!" Well put....

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I'm not a panhandler, and I don't give my money to them if they are not in obvious need.

Thanks for teaching me that Dad.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 30 March 2005 at 05:36 PM.]

Al Carmichael · From: Sylvan Lake, Michigan, USA

Hearing all these tales, I'm feeling pretty blessed to still be playing music for a living. I started playing gigs when I was 15 and have been supporting myself and family since my early 20's. To do that, I've had to adjust to some dramatic shifts in the nature of live music. With the dramatic drop in venues for live bands, I got into the restaurant circuit doing a one man band deal. Best money I ever made, but definitely not the best music. I don't like the midi tracks, but thats what these places want.

Fortunately, I also work with a couple of bands--less money but loads more fun. All those gigs are one nighters. There is virtually no such thing as a house gig around here anymore.

One of the groups I work with is a country band. I think they are doing a smart thing. They got into doing the fairs and festival circuit, which pays very well (usually). The gigs are often two sets and the band plays the music it wants to play. Many are outdoors, so there's no smoke or dangerous drunks to deal with. Just about every town in the country has a summer fair with live music. Something to look into.

Still, I am nostalgic about the "old days" when you could put a good band together and stay together, working as much as you liked. I think about the line in "Amanda" that says: 'There's a measure of people who don't understand; the pleasures of life in a hillbilly band.' Those old bandmates are among my best friends to this day.

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