Help with a new student

George Manno · Post by **George Manno** » 19 Sep 2005 3:50 am

I have this young man(19) who wants to take a few lessons. He shows up with a complete rig: Old Dickerson MOTS lap steel - tuned to C6, Roland Micro cube, pedal board, a half dozen bars and picks and ready to play.
He know how to bar and pick. He can call out chords and slants, BUT.... He knows absolutely nothing about music theory,He can't keep time with a stopwatch,and all he wants to play are blues solos. Any suggestions?

GM

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 19 Sep 2005 5:07 am

Yep, get him some tights & make up. He's ready to go on tour with a rock band.

Gary Boyett · Post by **Gary Boyett** » 19 Sep 2005 5:12 am

Sell him your old outfit Howard!

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JCFSGC,RMSGC,HSGA member
Boyett's Glass Bars

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 19 Sep 2005 7:04 am

Seriously, I may not be experienced in playing out or teaching so please take this in stride.

George, if you have your student play to some rhythm tracks or back up, and record him playing solos, he may then realize how out of sync he is. It's always an eye (& ear) opener for me.

If he wants to play blues, you may want to nudge him a bit to country blues and swing to broaden his outlook.

Joy Wofford · Post by **Joy Wofford** » 19 Sep 2005 7:15 am

For the problem with his timing, I'd have him pick up a rhythm meter...or a metrodome...(if I could spell, I'd be dangerous, but you get the idea). They even have some nice digital ones now that are VERY inexpensive.

Joy

George Manno · Post by **George Manno** » 19 Sep 2005 7:29 am

anybody know of a good sacles exercise book out there?

George

Joseph Rush Wills · Post by **Joseph Rush Wills** » 19 Sep 2005 9:01 am

Help with a new student? Do what Marc Horowitz did when he was teaching me banjo...a good kick in the shins will straighten the guy out!

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 19 Sep 2005 10:29 am

There's nothing wrong with wanting to learn blues solos. Transcribe a bunch of Campbell brothers or other sacred steel stuff and away you go.
Yes, encourage him to open his ears to other styles and genres, lend or burn him some CDs of a wide variety of styles.
The timing thing is an issue. I'd spend time with a metronome every lesson and make sure he's using one by himself.
Theory... you can go a long, long way (especially in blues, country and folk music) without much theory (the intuitive system of numbering of scale degrees and chords is probably sufficient). When any deficiency of knowledge starts to impede your communication of ideas, explain the concepts as they come up.
As far as I'm concerned, the main role of a teacher is to address and encourage the growth of the unique interests of an individual student. Nothing destroys a student's enthusiasm faster than trying to bend them in a direction they don't want to go.

-Tim[This message was edited by Tim Tweedale on 19 September 2005 at 11:36 AM.]

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 19 Sep 2005 10:58 am

Jo says,

..pick up a rhythm meter...or a metrodome...(if I could spell, I'd be dangerous, but you get the idea)

Hey Jo, your are not so dangerous after all, you are off only by one letter 'n'. It is a metronome.

We all strive for perfection, but never attain it. The saying for today.

Aloha,
Don

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 19 Sep 2005 12:44 pm

As far as I'm concerned, the main role of a teacher is to address and encourage the growth of the unique interests of an individual student. Nothing destroys a student's enthusiasm faster than trying to bend them in a direction they don't want to go.

This should be framed and hang on a wall in every room where there happens to be a teacher!

Our job is to help the student realize his/her potential and provide them with the tools (knowledge) they need to reach that potential. What musical style they choose to play is none of our business.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Yann Obergfell · Post by **Yann Obergfell** » 22 Sep 2005 12:33 pm

I agree with that, but I think that a good teacher should also take his student on paths he would not have tread on his own. I also started as a blues player because-- let's face it-- I could quickly learn licks that sound great and could easily pass off for a virtuoso.
The real eye opener was when I joined my first country music band. I remember our drummer, who could play any instruments besides his, suddently stop playing and throwing his sticks down and shouting scornfully at me: "This is no blues band you"re playing in, Hendrix." On the spot I felt insulted, but had he never said a thing, I would not have been pushed to learn that style of music and all the music theory behind it, and I certanly would have stayed one blues/rock guitar player among a crowd of millions. I've learnt to love country, western swing and bluegrass, and I am forever in debt to my drummer for opening my ears and allowing me to become a real musician.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 22 Sep 2005 1:27 pm

Have him read Mike Perlowin's book to start. Great stuff.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 22 Sep 2005 1:32 pm

or, teach him some basic accounting.....if the blues doesn't work out, he'll always have something to fall back on.

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 22 Sep 2005 3:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I agree with that, but I think that a good teacher should also take his student on paths he would not have tread on his own. I also started as a blues player because-- let's face it-- I could quickly learn licks that sound great and could easily pass off for a virtuoso.
The real eye opener was when I joined my first country music band. I remember our drummer, who could play any instruments besides his, suddently stop playing and throwing his sticks down and shouting scornfully at me: "This is no blues band you"re playing in, Hendrix." On the spot I felt insulted, but had he never said a thing, I would not have been pushed to learn that style of music and all the music theory behind it, and I certanly would have stayed one blues/rock guitar player among a crowd of millions. I've learnt to love country, western swing and bluegrass, and I am forever in debt to my drummer for opening my ears and allowing me to become a real musician.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great story, Yann. Reminds me of some story about a saxophone cat by the name Charlie Parker. Seems he got "cut" pretty bad onstage in front of a live audience, and was so ashamed, he went off to practice everyday for 16 hours a day. He came back three years later to blow away any and everyone.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 22 Sep 2005 4:07 pm

Yes, it was drummer Joe Jones (one of the best) who threw a cymbal at Charlie Parker.

People have thrown bars at me...doesn't seem to help though.....

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 22 Sep 2005 9:26 pm

Another great tool...far better than the mmetronome...is the Fender GDec practice amp. It has 50 programmed MIDI backup-band channels, plus 50 user-programmable slots where you can tweak the existing presets...guitar tone, speed, key, effects...and save them.

Many players who hate the idea of a meetronome (and they CAN get boring quickly) will go bonkers over this little box. It's tremendous for learning every rhythm style you can think of - there's everything from country to reggae, blues, rock, jazz, latin stuff - built in.

Worth a look. I've been playing 40 years and find it a great tool - as does my 10 year old son who's been playing 6 months.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 22 September 2005 at 10:27 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 23 Sep 2005 2:15 am

Our job is to help the student realize his/her potential and provide them with the tools (knowledge) they need to reach that potential. What musical style they choose to play is none of our business.

My guitar-pickin' buddy has been a living room player for years, and thus has a hard time keeping straight time.
But he has developed a unique and fluid style with original compositions ('semi-classical Mexican blues'). Had I harped on him about time, he wouldn't have done it.
So I choose carefully which ones to play on, and just let the rest soar above the mundane.

Encouragement for what the player can do does more than criticism about what they can't.

George Manno · Post by **George Manno** » 23 Sep 2005 3:32 am

His next lesson is this afternoon.
I'll let you know how it goes.

George

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 23 Sep 2005 9:15 am

People have thrown bars at me...doesn't seem to help though.....

That reminds me of this:
"Irked at being told how to play at a recording session, Joaquin Murphey hurled his tonebar at the control room window with enough force to break the glass then packed up and left."
-From John McGann's Joaquin Murphey transcription book[This message was edited by Tim Tweedale on 23 September 2005 at 10:15 AM.]

Paul Arntson · Post by **Paul Arntson** » 23 Sep 2005 9:58 pm

Awesome, so far I've only been thrown OUT of bars...

Chuck Fisher · Post by **Chuck Fisher** » 24 Sep 2005 9:21 am

tell him what an early teacher of mine told me; "There's only two things wrong with your playing - your hands"

Seriously, canned drumbeats are really helpful. blues is roots for a lot of folks, but you gotta practice in time to have timing. Band in a box, GarageBand, or SonicFoundry Acid are all good tools for practice, and songwriting too.

Jon den Boer · Post by **Jon den Boer** » 24 Sep 2005 9:16 pm

As a student of Tim's, and of this forum, I agree with what has been said here in general... I feel most comfortable playing bluesy stuff, it just comes natural to me. In the last year, my eyes (and ears) have been opened to Hawaiian music, bluegrass, and it's taught me to be open to all kinds of new things. A good teacher is totally invaluable to growth as musician, and I think you can never know 'too much.' Having only taken up steel playing last year, I wouldn't be anywhere near the point I'm at (still having a long way to go) without the total enthusiasm and knowledge of "my teacher."

Jon

George Manno · Post by **George Manno** » 25 Sep 2005 9:09 am

he never showed up.

G

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 25 Sep 2005 10:27 am

So his timing is THAT bad????

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 25 Sep 2005 10:56 am

.[This message was edited by HowardR on 25 September 2005 at 11:59 AM.]