Robert Randolf! is it just me or what!?

Ron Shepard · Post by **Ron Shepard** » 11 Feb 2005 9:14 am

Check out the band "Fountains of Wayne" on the "welcome interstate managers cd" I think RR played on the cut "hung up on you". I thought is was pretty cool.

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 11 Feb 2005 9:19 am

Right you are, Jim. Les Paul invented multi-track, the other Paul used multi-track to produce recordings that were innovative.

Terry

Danny Kuykendall · Post by **Danny Kuykendall** » 11 Feb 2005 10:44 am

I watched the Eric Clapton show on channel 28 the other night and can only say, that even with my limited pedal steel guitar experience what he was doing did not seem all that difficult. Do I feel that I could do it? Yes, I do.
And, does the distortion (the fuzz) cover mistakes? My experience was (the one time I played a gig and used a fuzz) that it did allow for a lot of free-picking and seem to "muffle" or obscure the sound, as opposed to a clear steel sound.
No offense to Robert, just an observation.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 11 Feb 2005 10:53 am

What Steinar said. ^

The Beatles and George Martin pioneered multitrack recording techniques to make records that were much more than just a recording of a band's performance

True up to a point , but the real originator of this was Les Paul on his recordings with Mary Ford.

Using Ampex tube electronics and custom made recording heads and computer tape.
7-8 years before the Beatles were using much more than stereo.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 February 2005 at 10:54 AM.]

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 11 Feb 2005 11:01 am

I have a friend here in Atlanta that works in a funky music store that deals mostly vintage. He loves the PSG and plays a little. Usually keeps a used one in the store. He tells me that the black kids come in and check out the pedal steel guitars all the time. They dig RR. They are becoming interested in the PSG because of him and also the church thing. Some of them can actually play! THAT is promotion of this instrument. It is certainly not the promotion of the PSG in the typical tired E9 whining thing.
The black kids don't know or care about Emmons or Nashville, they just know that RR is cool and that he has sparked something that has drawn them to the pedal steel guitar. That's promotion.

I saw that concert with Clapton. From the beggining of Claptons career until right now, when is the last time you saw a pedal guitar player on stage with him? THAT is promotion of the instrument.

We keep talking about RR here until everybody is blue in the face pro and con---he keeps on playing and furthering his career and the instrument.

RR is not a complex player. He is a groove player. His fan base is color blind. They are just into the groove. They see and hear no groove in Emmons and country. For them to feel this from a pedal player--THAT is promotion of the instrument.

You guys know where I have stood on the RR issue from the start. He is good for the pedal guitar!

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 11 Feb 2005 11:03 am

Should we criticize country steelers for not using the full potential of the instrument and playing some RR style and some classical music? Should we ask them to include one RR style song in each set, just to educate the listeners? I appreciate it for some steelers to say they are not too impressed with RRs playing and his type of music (although I have never heard these complaints about any other steeler). But that is their problem, not his. Playing blues and gospel on steel guitar goes back to the '20s and '30s. It's not even new. Will RR help country steel? Remains to be seen. Will RR help blues and gospel steel? It's already happened. I used to play blues on steel for myself when I started back in the '70s, but no blues band ever asked me to play with them. Tonight I will be playing my Zum with a group that plays mostly Chicago Blues, with a little fusion. My old slide guitar is gathering dust since RR came along. Pedal steel is much more versatile, and now I am more free to play anything I want on it.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 11 Feb 2005 11:12 am

What Len Amaral said makes some sense. When RR is on Tv for 3 or 4 songs, after tiring out his fan base with his high performance playing.

It would be nice if he slipped in just one tune, nice and quiet, using the pedals and showing the Other side of the Steel Guitars possibilities.

The audience might even want a breather. I don't think he would hurt his image, one bit, if he did that.

I know that he can do it! Probably increase his fan base at the same time...........al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 11 Feb 2005 11:32 am

I would venture a guess that most of those critical of RR not using the pedal steel guitar to its fullest potential are probably guilty themselves of not playing C6 and utilizing their D-10 guitars to to fullest potential.

But then there is nothing wrong with that. You play your instrument the way you choose to play it.

It is not RR's responsibility to promote the pedal steel guitar. He's just a musician and an artist making music that he enjoys and he's making a living at it.

Terry

Ad Kersten · Post by **Ad Kersten** » 11 Feb 2005 11:36 am

I thought the whole idea was about making MUSIC, not about which instrument you use or how you get "a" sound out of it...........

Ad

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Zumsteel S12U

Yo, Man! homepage

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 11 Feb 2005 11:45 am

I'm glad that RR is around and doing what he's doing, but I have to agree with Skip in that he just hasnt grabbed me yet, even though his talent, charisma, and enthusiasm is undenialble.

I think for me its more of a tone thing. (And believe me, nobody likes NON-country steel playing more than I do!) I just wanna hear something else.

I'm thinking that any blues/rock guitar player around here (which is what RR is clearly trying to emulate most of the time) who has that brittle of a tone, and plays that frenetically, would be hard pressed to get anywhere near the attention that Robert's getting. In fact I know a few blazing 6 stringers who nobody will hire for that very reason.

I still say the best thing I've heard RR do is the Ebow "vocal" sounding stuff. It's killer!!! I'd like to see some TONE and VIBE guru like Daniel Lanois etc. produce his next album.[This message was edited by Rick Schmidt on 11 February 2005 at 11:49 AM.]

Thomas Bancroft · Post by **Thomas Bancroft** » 11 Feb 2005 11:49 am

Frank Zappa said it best. "Shut up and play your guitar!"

Larry King · Post by **Larry King** » 11 Feb 2005 12:15 pm

How about Tom Morrell? Before some hot shot jumps on my case by saying Morrell doesn't have pedals, I'll be happy to remind you that we all saw him for years with his Bigsby Pedal Steel and never touching his pedals.
The other side of the coin is Billy Robinson who gets all the pedal "sounds" playing 'slant bar' on a non pedal guitar. RR probably isn't my cup of tea but he's highly visible and the instrument is getting exposure so.......

Brian Herder · Post by **Brian Herder** » 11 Feb 2005 12:58 pm

Ron is correct..RR is on Fountains of Wayne "Welcome to the Interstate" Hung Up On You. A sort of country number that RR plays on. You can hear a little on iTunes..you can hear the whole thing for 99 cents.

Charles French · Post by **Charles French** » 11 Feb 2005 1:07 pm

"The Robert Randolf Steel Guitar Forum"

You guys are a trip. You all sound my 10 yr old son and his friends playing ball in the back yard.

"That's not fair, you can't do that, yes I can, no you can't, can too, fine then, I ain't playing with you then."

"I like Robert's playing, he's making young folks aware of the steel."

"I saw him on such & such and he is Great"

"I bet he can't play no country steel"

"He's a bum"

"He don't impress me"

"He really impressed me"

"If you don't like him, you don't have to listen"

"Why does he have pedals, he don't use them"

etcetcetcetcetcetcetcetcetcetc&on&on

JIMMY CRACK CORN AND I DONT CARE!

[This message was edited by Charles French on 11 February 2005 at 01:08 PM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 11 Feb 2005 1:11 pm

What we tend to forget is that as musicians, out ultimate goal is to play music, and the instrument we play is just a tool. With that in mind, let's pretend that we are furniture builders who use a certain type of screwdriver, and we are talking about somebody who makes radically different style of furniture.

Somebody once commented that if RR's style of music was the future of the steel guitar, it would be better to let the instrument die. If we use the analogy of the screwdriver, you can see how absurd that is. - It's like saying that if style of furniture becomes prevalent, it's better to get rid of all the screwdrivers.

The pedal steel guitar is not a country instrument, it is a musical instrument, capable of playing many musical styles and limited only by the imaginations (or lack thereof) of the players.

Whether you like RR or not, there is no question that he is bringing the pedal steel guitar to the attention of people who would otherwise never know anything about it, and by doing so, he is opening up doors for other players. This is something that not even Buddy and Lloyd have been able to do.

I fail to see a down side.[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 11 February 2005 at 01:13 PM.]

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 11 Feb 2005 1:20 pm

All these conversations about RR remind me of a discussion I had in a music store a couple of years ago. I was talking to one of the guys working there who complimented me on some playing I had done on a local rock band's record. The subject came up that I had played pedal steel on said recording. Whereby a fellow employee (young shredder guitar hero wannabe) commented that he could play *anything* that could be played on the pedal steel with his strat with whammy pedal. Whereby said shredder dude proceeded to demonstrate (with said whammy bar equiped strat) how little he understood about the pedal steel. You couldn't really talk to the guy. He really thought he was doing it, but he just didn't get it.

IMHO a lot of the comments on these RR threads show about as much understanding of what RR is doing as that guitar player showed towards the pedal steel.

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www.tyack.com

Charles French · Post by **Charles French** » 11 Feb 2005 1:27 pm

Dan, you just summed it up. Now that ought to be a thread stopper.

John Pelz · Post by **John Pelz** » 11 Feb 2005 1:45 pm

What Dan said. Now let's all do something useful, like practice our steels...

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 11 Feb 2005 2:05 pm

quote:

"I'm sure but this kinda musicianship is NOT helping promote pedal steel in any way."

I don't know about anyone else, but my session calls are definitely up do to RR and his visibility. Now I happen to really like him, but even if I didn't, he sure is promoting the steel...

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 11 Feb 2005 2:21 pm

What John said about what Dan said, and definitely this pearl from Perlowin:

The pedal steel guitar is not a country instrument, it is a musical instrument, capable of playing many musical styles and limited only by the imaginations (or lack thereof) of the players.

Have a nice weekend.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 11 Feb 2005 2:48 pm

Dan--no kidding.

I think the tone comments are fair, though. I thought his tone on last night's Conan show was better than usual, but I think he could sound a lot better.

Of course, I think that most distorted pedal steel doesn't sound as good as it could. Aside from on a couple of tracks whose names I can't recall at present, most of Buddy Emmons' distorted tones that I've heard are downright embarassing (the stuff on the "White Album" especially).

This is not to say that it can't sound good, just that for some reason it's a bit of a rarity. Lap steel and acoustic steel sound GREAT distorted, so I don't know why people seem to have so much trouble with the pedal steel.

-Travis

Dave Grothusen · Post by **Dave Grothusen** » 11 Feb 2005 3:06 pm

Ya know guys, we do not have to like RR. We are not the ones paying his bills. I for one do not care for what he does, I think it is sloppy slide guitar. However, someone must like him because he is evidently making a living doing what he likes.
I guess one of the things that bothers me is that he is a "pedalsteel guitar player". Well, did he work as hard as we did to learn how to play "Together Again" or 'Look At Us"? One would assume that he did not. Maybe though, he worked just as hard to learn to do what he does as we did to learn what we do.
He has the spotlight and that is good for him. I do not believe that he will erase the love for "our" type of PSG.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 11 Feb 2005 3:14 pm

Nor do I think he is trying to erase that.
He is just adding another way to what can be done.
Heck, he's still quite young too, many of you have grandchildren his age...

I think much of the embarassing distorted steel work of the past ,
was because the fuzz tones were pretty darned embarassing,
but you work with what ya got. at the time...

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 11 Feb 2005 4:13 pm

DD is close on the fuzz thing on older steel recording. I attribute it to the fact that steel players mostly have no affinity with distortion so when they tried out that "new groovy hip cool fuzzy" guitar sounds that all the standard players were using, they mostly flipped a switch on a Jordan Boss tone and sounded somewhat like a giant bumble bee, and they really did not know that it was sort of a VERY square square wave.

Dave. When you talk about "our" type of steel guitar. Are you talking about that type of steel that is just about never heard anymore on top 40 records out of Nashville or any place else?

Unfortunatly RR is just one guy. This could begin and end with him. Anybody know of any new kids out there coming up behind him with some interesting stuff?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Feb 2005 4:25 pm

I ain't no young dude, but I'll 'splain this thing oneeee moooore time. I wan'cha all to pay attention. Especially those who simply can't understand RR's popularity.

It's not about "ability".

It's about entertainment, it's about style, and it's about being different! Yup, 'ya gotta dare to be different to catch the appeal of the masses!

Remember Tiny Tim?

Remember Hendrix?

Remember the Beatles???

Remember the Rolling Stones?

Remember.....Elvis?

Yep. They all attained fame and notoriety by doing something totally different. They stepped outside the box.

That's what it takes to create a phenomenon. That's what it takes to get you featured on TV nowadays.

I recall...back in the early '60s, I think, two piano virtuosos. One was Liberace (y'all know him), the other was Van Cliburn. They had a "technical playoff", of sorts, in Texas. Well, when it was over, Van Cliburn won, hands down!

But it wouldn't be he that went on to play Vegas for millions of dollars.

It was...(big shock), ol' Liberace!

"Mass appeal" is never about ability. It's about style. It's not rocket science, guys. You can verify it yourself...

Enter "robert randolph" in your google search engine.

222,000 hits come back, give or take a few.

Now, enter "buddy emmons".

12,000 hits come back, give or take a few.

And yet, some people (mostly older players, like myself) can't understand exactly why Robert's on Conan, Letterman, and Leno, and Mr. E is well, semi retired.

Duh???

We all know Buddy has probably forgotten more than Robert will ever know. We all have ultimate respect for this giant of the steel guitar. Makes no difference, though. RR is numero uno. The numbers (remember Madison Ave.?) don't lie. I know this frosts some people's butts, but that's the way it is. Despite the growing "grey demographic", this is still a YOUTH culture. I'll digress alittle more, then I'll adjourn for the evening.

This past weekend, I played a steel show presented by VA native Chuck Campbell. The crowd was rather typical...average age 45-55, and few (if any) youngsters (players under 20 years old). The had great local and N'ville players, as well, guys like Randy Beavers, Russ Hicks, and Buddy Charleton.

Anyway, on to the show. I played one set. Did about 7 songs. One, unaccompanied (an old Les Paul fingerstyle number), which I hadn't player much in 20 years. I warned the audience it would probably be a train wreck, and I dismissed the band.

It was.

Bringing to mind the words Hoover, and Electrolux.

I also did a "warp 7" version of Rocky Top. Paul Franklin would have been proud (except for the missed change...I still don't know if it was my fault, or the bands). Anyhow, I somehow collected my wits, and after a few boom-thumps, I was back on track, and finished the song, banjo style (using my Sharpie instead of the bar to get the genuine "plink-plunk" of a Mastertone or Deering!

I did a few slow numbers, typical "schmaltzy" steel stuff. You know, Mansion, Cold Cold Heart, and a jazzy I Love You Because (rather sloppy, but different...couldn't have them think I didn't know where the C6th neck was, could I?).

Anyhow, since I had pretty well run the gamut of my mediocre abilities, I thought I'd do something rather "atypical". I don't have much of a reputation, anyway, so I can do these things...in other words, I have very little to lose at this point in my life. I held up my Bosstone, and explained to the audience..."This is rock-and-roll"! A quick check with the band verified they knew my "rock song" selection (I had picked out 3 that I had done many times in decades past, and settled on the Rolling Stones' "Honky-Tonk Woman), and I turned on the slap-back, took two rides (growing in complexity), and finished with a distorted machine-gun verse and chorus that RR would have probably loved!

(The bass-player told me it had a "great groove"?)

When the performance was over, I was mystified (with this audience) that my biggest round of applause came from....

Well, here's a hint...

"Really big lips"

(And no, I didn't do any Ernie Ashworth songs!

) [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 11 February 2005 at 04:28 PM.]