What's a good beginner's steel guitar ?

Wade Branch · Post by **Wade Branch** » 4 Dec 2004 9:12 pm

Let me start off by saying Iam a brand new member here and this is my first post.Iam a guitar player that is about to give the steel guitar a serious try.I have read everything I can get my hands on about all the different steel guitars for beginners.I want a steel that is good enough to gig with when Iam ready,I dont want a steel that is so basic that every time I add a knee lever its like starting over but I also dont want a really overwhelming guitar...not yet.Being a guitar player I have never been afraid to spend money on good equiptment,but I also believe in working my way up to better equiptment as I need it.So my question is what are some of you guys opinions on all the different brands of steels and what's the best set up (number of pedals and knee levers) for a guy that is wanting to learn ?

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Chris Lasher · Post by **Chris Lasher** » 4 Dec 2004 9:34 pm

Welcome to the board, Wade. There are lots of pickers in Texas, so my suggestion would be to befriend one or two of them and have them help you look for used steels. They'll know good playing guitar from a mechanical quagmire.

You could go with a new Carter Starter, but you may be more happy with a used single-neck guitar. You can find lots of options popping up on the For Sale: Instruments section of the SGF. A fair warning, but I'm sure you already know this, is that getting into pedal steel guitar ain't cheap. I suffered a bit of sticker shock, especially coming from a 6-string background, but I got over it quickly as I know it was the right decision to make. Careful--I hear this pedal steel thing is addicting!

By the by, what brings you to the instrument?

Welcome, again!

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 4 Dec 2004 9:41 pm

Any Sho~Bud, cheap and it will get you as far as you want to go.
Welcome to the forum.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 4 Dec 2004 10:25 pm

Wade wrote:

So my question is what are some of you guys opinions on all the different brands of steels and what's the best set up (number of pedals and knee levers) for a guy that is wanting to learn ?
Number of pedals and knee levers.3 pedals 4 knees.Great for a newbie or Lloyd Green.

As for guitars.If your on a budget.I would look for late model guitars that are good but don't have high resale values.Carters, Fessenden's,Derbys and maybe GFI's.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 Dec 2004 10:45 pm

Be ready to pay a few hundred more dollars to get a good deal steel from ebay or the internet into playable condition. Try to have somebody who knows what they are doing check it out for you before you buy.

Since you live in the heart of steel guitar country go visit the Carter factory. The usually have some very good deals on trade ins. Talk to Bud Carter over there. He helped invent the thing in the first place !

The best thing would be to go out and meet some steel players at gigs and talk to them directly. The forum is cool but is pretty bogus compared to real life.

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Bob
intonation help

Tom Callahan · Post by **Tom Callahan** » 5 Dec 2004 4:22 am

I would advise, as a fairly newcomer myself that you stick with a dealer or a manufacture.
If you buy off e=bay you stand a good chance of getting a "pig-in-a-poke" that may cost you more to get playable than a new one would cost you.
Go the to links section and search out dealers and talk to them. You will always have the security of being able to go back to them should you have a problem.
for starters, there is the GFI, Sumsteel stage one, and the Carter starter.
There is also the option of going ahead and moving up one notch to a better model.
Remember, most all starters are "Fixed copendants" and changes are difficult to make if at all possible.
I would also suggest that you get in touch with players in your area and talk to them.
experience is an excellent teacher.

tom callahan

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 5 Dec 2004 5:00 am

Wade,i would like to say,as already been said,Don't buy steel off Ebay!lots of those guys can't even spell the word right!most time you gonna get a bum deal!buy,where you can get some help.Texas is full of steel people.Find RICKY DAVIS,or someone who can help you get started right.then you will be headed in the right direction!! good luck
farris

Billy Murdoch · Post by **Billy Murdoch** » 5 Dec 2004 5:54 am

Hi Wade,
If I turn the clock back a number of years I was in the same position as you.
Unlike you I had no other steelplayers near where I live and had actually only ever seen two steel guitars up close,I just loved the sound of the instrument.
I read all I could find on the subject and convinced myself that I would be able to play it in a very short time,I bought an Emmons 3floor and 4Knee by telephone even though I had no idea what it was like.
It took me a long time to get something going but I stuck at it and I am glad had'nt bought a starter with limited changes.
After many years of playing I am still finding new things to do and different ways to do it,I would definately recommend you go for a minimum of 3pedal/4knee.Remember you do'nt HAVE to use all the changes right away,2pedals and one knee will get you going and as you advance you will be able to use the rest for some great variations and extensions.
You seem to be doing the right thing in seeking advice from the Forum,you certainly have come to the right place,the guys here will go all out to help you.
Best regards
Billy

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 5 Dec 2004 6:02 am

Wade, You have been given some good advice so far. If you can find someone that knows how to play steel it will be to your advantage. Someone suggested you call Bud Carter and you might call Charlie Norris at Norris Family Music over in Mesquite. They are only about 6 blocks apart and they both will have some used steels. You can look at the Carter website and see what they have available. MSA is in the area as well and you may give them a call to see if they have anything available. Before you buy I would recommend sitting down and messing around with one and see how the pedals and levers feel to you. Not all guitars have the pedals and levers in the exact spots and you may have trouble if you are short like me. Playing lead guitar is a big advantage for you. As you learn you will get a better understanding of the pedals,levers and why the steel is tuned the way it is. I would recommend that if possible you video yourself as you play from time to time and you can see and hear how you are progressing. The right hand technique is a very essential part of playing and any help or lessons would be of a benefit to you. I admire you for wanting to learn the steel guitar. I have come across several good guitar players and they will not even sit down and give the steel a ride. It makes me wonder why. Best of wishes in finding a steel and I hope it brings you as much enjoyment as it has brought me.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 5 Dec 2004 6:26 am

Wade, I am a year ahead of you,40 on guitar, 1 year on steel. My first guitar was a used D10 that played pretty well, but needed a lot of maintenance. I, sold it after a few months, and got a newer model used, a pro S10. it has 5 pedals( a little unusual) and 4 knees. I rarely use the extra 2 pedals, 3 plus 4 is way plenty to learn, and can do almost anything you want. The fingerpicks will give you the most trouble at first, then the palm blocking. The chords and positions will be easy, you can use guitar knowledge a lot to help you find things. It's lotsa fun and lotsa work. Good luck JP

Wade Branch · Post by **Wade Branch** » 5 Dec 2004 7:38 am

WOW !!! I posted last night about midnight and went to bed ,I woke up and the steel guitar advice fairy came !!!you guys are awesome ,I got alot of great advice.Iam in a honky tonk band and I always suggested (really I insisted ,haha) that we have a steel guitar player in the band.The day I heard a steel guitar kick off a 4/4 shuffle in a honky tonk,that sound was the reason I wanted to play hardcore honky tonk country music !!!I was born a little late Iam 34 years old but I love the old 4/4 stuff ,Ive caught some slack over the years for dragging out my Ray Price Cd's from my younger friends ....haha
There's nothing like the excitement of walking thru a honky tonk parking lot and hearing the muffled sound of the band playing coming thru the walls and about the time you open the door the steel players taking a ride ,you know its gonna be a good night !!!! Thanks for the advice keep it coming !!!

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 5 Dec 2004 7:59 am

Wade, i'd like to say,since you'r talking like you are,good old stuff,get you a sho-bud,man they just do the job on that stuff.
Bobbe Seymore,nashville steel guitars got some nice ones,can't go wrong there.make um talk man.nothing no pretty than an old Bud sitting up there,and drive the girls wild too. farris

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 5 Dec 2004 8:28 am

Bobbie Seymour Is The Way To Go. SONNY.

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Jon Jaffe · Post by **Jon Jaffe** » 5 Dec 2004 3:40 pm

Wade, You are in Weatherford, the cutting horse capital of the world. Its about an hour from 3 manufacturers of steel guitars; MSA in a large PO Box in Dallas, GFI in Arlington, and Carter in Mesquite. Go there and touch them and smell them. Talk to Gene, Reece and Bud. You are assured of different opinions, all of them good.

IMHO, stay away from "student" models as you will have to unload it at some time. Decide what you want and search the forum for a used one. If you can wait, the Texas Jam is in March. Check them out there. Above all have fun. Was it a 5511 that hooked you?

Mark Metdker · Post by **Mark Metdker** » 5 Dec 2004 5:47 pm

Hey Wade, how's it going bud. Hey, if you find a guitar and want me to look at it and play it for you, just let me know. I'll help you all I can.

I also like the advice given about trying some of the local factories around the D/FW area. We are lucky that we live in the middle of a hot bed of steel activity.

I'd stay away from old guitars that will need a lot of work. that'll take the fun out of it for you. Lots of good used steels around that would be perfect for you.

Hey, on second thought, I hope you don't learn the how to play steel. You boys won't ever ask me to come play with ya'll again!

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Zum U-12 w/True Tone pickup
Peavey Session 500

Band Pics
http://community.webshots.com/album/176544894AuXSmi

[This message was edited by Mark Metdker on 05 December 2004 at 05:48 PM.]

Wade Branch · Post by **Wade Branch** » 5 Dec 2004 8:39 pm

Mark,now you know better than that !!! your invited to our stage anytime !!!

Ernest Cawby · Post by **Ernest Cawby** » 6 Dec 2004 12:25 am

I like the idea of buying Sho-Bud they hold their price well, great sounding, reliable, stay in tune,the weight will keep you young.
My Professional D10 has never needed repair and works every day.
The set up is somewhat different than emmons and other guitars, as the E or d lever is on the right side as the Emmons setup is on the left knee in.
I like the 3 4 or the 8 4 setup best gives you all the basic pulls you could ask for.
Nothing like having the D10 for the C6 neck I use it all the time, for us that started on the 6 string it has many more possibilities. wnere we use to change tunnings between songs for easier playing.
Some do not use C6 much becouse you can imulate C6 on the E9 to some extent, but I love the full neck, at 74 it is not fun to carry around, but worth it.

ernie

Dave Horch · Post by **Dave Horch** » 6 Dec 2004 2:25 am

Hi Wade, welcome. You found the right place! I also came to the steel after years of 6-string guitar (and other instruments). First comment; you wrote;

There's nothing like the excitement of walking thru a honky tonk parking lot and hearing the muffled sound of the band playing coming thru the walls and about the time you open the door the steel players taking a ride ,you know its gonna be a good night !!!!

Ah... you'll fit in just fine around here! You might need to remember that inspiration during times of frustration on the learning curve.

Second; E.C. wrote;

The set up is somewhat different than emmons and other guitars, as the E or d lever is on the right side as the Emmons setup is on the left knee in.

This brings up a very good discussion for a beginning player - Which pedal/knee's make which changes! There are as many combinations as there are players, and/but there is somewhat of a "standard" which may be a good starting point. Some call it the "Emmons" setup. See the Carter site for what they ship as standard, I think that's it.

Last; prepare for frustration - and fight through it. And don't bother with a volume pedal for the first year. Blocking (string muting) is often a challenge at fist, but you will get past it. I remember a time of frustration early on for me when I almost quit because I just couldn't "get" blocking. Then one day - AH HA! You will find your way.

Best, -Dave

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Mullen D-10 - It's still one smooooth puppy!
Photo page: http://www.davidhorch.com/music

Wade Branch · Post by **Wade Branch** » 6 Dec 2004 4:50 am

David,thanks for the advice on frustration.I remember when I was learning to play the guitar,trying to stack my fingers on the fretboard to make a "G" chord and then move them to make a "C" and then to the "D" I thought "there aint no way" but I kept trying and trying until it became automatic,it was the most rewarding thing Ive ever done !!! So Iam ready for the challenge of learning the steel.I talked to Gary Carpentar last week on the phone,Iam going to start taking lessons from him in january,but I got to get a steel bought and make sure I get the right one first !!! So far thats been a real challenge for a novice !!To many options out there.

Earl Yarbro · Post by **Earl Yarbro** » 6 Dec 2004 10:15 am

Wade, I believe If I was starting again, I'd do just what I did. A D10. You'll get started on E9, and when you're ready start messing with the E6. I started with a ZB, then went to a Zum which I really like.
all the main brands have excellent guitars, Zum, mullen, carter, emmons, and I hear the new Rains is a dandy also. Good luck, if you are ever in
Bowie, give me call.[This message was edited by Earl Yarbro on 06 December 2004 at 10:16 AM.]

John Hall · Post by **John Hall** » 12 Dec 2004 8:52 am

Wade

Seems like you've already gotten a lot of great advice from folks who know the subject way better than me, but I'll throw my 2 cents into the pot, too. I made the mistake a few years back of buying a ShoBud Maverick. Pretty quickly I was getting frustrated by the fact that there were so many things I couldn't do with only one knee lever. Of course, I could've carried on for years working on picking and blocking, but somehow, when you're looking for a particular sound, then not getting it is very irritating. Now I'm getting a much more advanced guitar and I'm looking forward to the challenge. Two things: 3+4 is absolutely the way to go, and don't miss the Texas Jam in March at the Harvey Hotel. If you're prepared to pay 1000-1500 you'll find plenty of good instruments for sale here on the Forum.

Good luck.

Post by **b0b** » 12 Dec 2004 10:43 am

Moved to "Pedal Steel" section of the forum.